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Topic: Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)  (Read 4127 times)

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Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« on: February 02, 2016, 11:31:34 AM »
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So we all know how Dragonballs, right? After all, they're the damn title of the show, yet they're referenced in 10% of all episodes in DBZ, DBS, etc. I wanted this thread to be a discussion on Dragonballs, so feel free to ask anything and get responses back.

I've got a few things to ask, but I'll save a few for a later date.

1. Forget Goku

Goku died along with Raditz, leaving Goku stuck training with King Kai. So, in anticipation of Vegeta and Nappa, they wish Goku back to life so they have a fighting chance against them. Seems like a good wish, right? Except, it's not. That's like plan C, why would that be your go to? Need a better one? How about asking Shenron to warp inside the nearest star? And yes, I know, if the person making the wish wants to kill someone with the Dragonballs, they need to be strong enough to do it themselves, but technically, they aren't killing Vegeta and Nappa. They're just letting them warm up in the sun. And teleporting someone isn't an issue. Need I remind you all Namekians as well as Gohan and Piccolo were all brought to earth with the Dragonballs. Forget Goku, just use the Dragonballs to detonate their space pods.

2. Immortality

Okay, you know how I said reviving Goku is plan C? Plan A is warping them into the sun, so what's plan B, you might be asking? Easy, plan B is wishing immortality on the strongest Z fighter besides Goku. I'm not gonna start a war by getting specific, but let's just say they use it on Piccolo. Done and done, no more future threats. Freiza comes way later? Piccolo absorbs Nail, and just beats the crap outta him. Majin Buu? Get out of here, this is an immortal Piccolo we're talking about.

What do you guys think? Feel free to ask additional questions!

Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2016, 11:35:38 AM »

    Offline Bardock

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Why? Because there would be no story then. unless you want another one punch man kind of stuff
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Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2016, 11:38:24 AM »
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Why? Because there would be no story then. unless you want another one punch man kind of stuff

I was really hoping to avoid these kind of responses. Can we say that people in Dragonball want to survive, and aren't being controlled by a greater force to battle it out?

Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2016, 12:10:49 PM »

    Offline Nia

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So we all know how Dragonballs, right? After all, they're the damn title of the show, yet they're referenced in 10% of all episodes in DBZ, DBS, etc. I wanted this thread to be a discussion on Dragonballs, so feel free to ask anything and get responses back.

I've got a few things to ask, but I'll save a few for a later date.

1. Forget Goku

Goku died along with Raditz, leaving Goku stuck training with King Kai. So, in anticipation of Vegeta and Nappa, they wish Goku back to life so they have a fighting chance against them. Seems like a good wish, right? Except, it's not. That's like plan C, why would that be your go to? Need a better one? How about asking Shenron to warp inside the nearest star? And yes, I know, if the person making the wish wants to kill someone with the Dragonballs, they need to be strong enough to do it themselves, but technically, they aren't killing Vegeta and Nappa. They're just letting them warm up in the sun. And teleporting someone isn't an issue. Need I remind you all Namekians as well as Gohan and Piccolo were all brought to earth with the Dragonballs. Forget Goku, just use the Dragonballs to detonate their space pods.

2. Immortality

Okay, you know how I said reviving Goku is plan C? Plan A is warping them into the sun, so what's plan B, you might be asking? Easy, plan B is wishing immortality on the strongest Z fighter besides Goku. I'm not gonna start a war by getting specific, but let's just say they use it on Piccolo. Done and done, no more future threats. Freiza comes way later? Piccolo absorbs Nail, and just beats the crap outta him. Majin Buu? Get out of here, this is an immortal Piccolo we're talking about.

What do you guys think? Feel free to ask additional questions!
Two issues... the first is, Oolong actually suggested Shenron kill Vegeta and Nappa in space before they arrived on Earth, and Shenron said he couldn't do it. One would think that Shenron could have detonated their pods in space if it were within his power there. This means one of two things: You have to either be very specific, or Shenron actually isn't that powerful.
Not only that, but obviously, if someone doesn't wanna be warped into the sun, then the dragon can't do that (seeing as how Goku refused to return to Earth until he finished his training on Yardrat).

The second is, all the immortality in the world wouldn't do jack shit for Piccolo if he can't hurt his opponent. With immortality, Piccolo might be able to beat Nappa, but Vegeta would have still been far too much for him. And by the time Freeza rolled around, when he fused with Nail, Freeza still would have curbstomped him. After all, Freeza could just blow up Namek and leave, while leaving Piccolo floating in space for the next million years.
Immortality just means he can't die. It doesn't mean he can't be injured, or suddenly is almighty. And before you suggest him training, keep in mind he never stopped training. By the time he would be strong enough to beat Buu, it doesn't matter... Buu would have already wiped out the entire universe.

A better question would be, why didn't they use the Dragon Balls to ensure Goku never even got the heart virus? Why didn't they use the Dragon Balls to make sure they didn't run out of money (a constant worry Chichi has)? Why didn't they use Kaio-sama to find the location of New Namek to get the Dragon Balls to revive everyone in Trunks' timeline (save for Goku, who died of the heart virus, and therefor died of a natural causes and could not be resurrected)?


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2016, 12:35:21 PM »

    Offline Tofu

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A better question would be, why didn't they use the Dragon Balls to ensure Goku never even got the heart virus? Why didn't they use the Dragon Balls to make sure they didn't run out of money (a constant worry Chichi has)? Why didn't they use Kaio-sama to find the location of New Namek to get the Dragon Balls to revive everyone in Trunks' timeline (save for Goku, who died of the heart virus, and therefor died of a natural causes and could not be resurrected)?

Didn't they learn of the heart virus once Goku had already reached Earth? He'd still have the virus anyways. About the money, in the last OVA, Goku told Chi-Chi to ask Satan for money and I don't remember what she replied (even though I watched it earlier today) but she didn't like the idea. I guess just wishing for money would be even less against her ideals. As for the Namek one... Well, they could've done that.
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Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2016, 01:02:36 PM »

    Offline Nia

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Didn't they learn of the heart virus once Goku had already reached Earth? He'd still have the virus anyways. About the money, in the last OVA, Goku told Chi-Chi to ask Satan for money and I don't remember what she replied (even though I watched it earlier today) but she didn't like the idea. I guess just wishing for money would be even less against her ideals. As for the Namek one... Well, they could've done that.

With the heart virus, Goku didn't have it yet. According to Trunks, he was to get the heart virus a year after his return to Earth (but he never got sick in the normal timeline until after the three years were up). They could have simply used Shenron to ensure that he never gets the heart virus.

And I was mostly referring to the point in time while Goku was dead during the seven years between the Cell arc and the Buu arc (Chichi mentions that the money from the Tenkaichi Budokai would save them after Gohan mentions how much the top contenders earn, as her family fortune from Gyu-mao was running out). And I think in the OVA, she just wanted Goku to take responsibility for a change (ha! Joke's on her!), but it's been a while since I last watched it, so I can't say for sure.
But, I probably should have given the specific point in time I was referring to.


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2016, 05:19:42 PM »

    Offline Gokule

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1 wish that would save lives and make all the Z fighters stronger is to wish they were all half Saiyan, or had the powers of a Saiyan, unless Akira Toriyama comes up with a God form for humans and Namekians. Also another wish that should have happened is to bring back Nappa, this dude was super loyal to Vegeta, and it would be and would've been cool to have a 3rd derpy (in a different kinda way) Saiyan.

(Hopefully Akira Toriyama just finds a way to bridge the gap without making all the Z fighters Saiyan.)

Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2016, 05:34:59 PM »

    Offline Tech Sheep

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Two issues... the first is, Oolong actually suggested Shenron kill Vegeta and Nappa in space before they arrived on Earth, and Shenron said he couldn't do it. One would think that Shenron could have detonated their pods in space if it were within his power there. This means one of two things: You have to either be very specific, or Shenron actually isn't that powerful.
Not only that, but obviously, if someone doesn't wanna be warped into the sun, then the dragon can't do that (seeing as how Goku refused to return to Earth until he finished his training on Yardrat).

The second is, all the immortality in the world wouldn't do jack shit for Piccolo if he can't hurt his opponent. With immortality, Piccolo might be able to beat Nappa, but Vegeta would have still been far too much for him. And by the time Freeza rolled around, when he fused with Nail, Freeza still would have curbstomped him. After all, Freeza could just blow up Namek and leave, while leaving Piccolo floating in space for the next million years.
Immortality just means he can't die. It doesn't mean he can't be injured, or suddenly is almighty. And before you suggest him training, keep in mind he never stopped training. By the time he would be strong enough to beat Buu, it doesn't matter... Buu would have already wiped out the entire universe.

A better question would be, why didn't they use the Dragon Balls to ensure Goku never even got the heart virus? Why didn't they use the Dragon Balls to make sure they didn't run out of money (a constant worry Chichi has)? Why didn't they use Kaio-sama to find the location of New Namek to get the Dragon Balls to revive everyone in Trunks' timeline (save for Goku, who died of the heart virus, and therefor died of a natural causes and could not be resurrected)?

On top of that, Buu could just absorb Piccolo. It really doesn't matter. Not even talking about the fact that only Gohan trusted Piccolo enough to do that.

Also, you could say Shenron doesn't have the power to bring those people back to life either. My question is, can Kami bring people back to life, or does Shenron also use magic rather than just the power of the "Dragon Master" or whatever we're calling it.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 07:23:36 PM by Tech Sheep »
"[Witty statement]"

Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2016, 07:20:37 PM »

    Offline Manphu

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Didn't they learn of the heart virus once Goku had already reached Earth? He'd still have the virus anyways. About the money, in the last OVA, Goku told Chi-Chi to ask Satan for money and I don't remember what she replied (even though I watched it earlier today) but she didn't like the idea. I guess just wishing for money would be even less against her ideals. As for the Namek one... Well, they could've done that.

Actually in the OVA, Goku mentions that they already have the money Satan gave them, so there was no real motive behind planting radishes. So we can safely assume that they have enough money to ensure their lifes. Chichi although, responded that Goku should learn the value of hard work as humans do. And of course as Nia said "ha! Jokes on her." :P

Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2016, 12:15:52 AM »

    Offline Kiyza

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Actually in the OVA, Goku mentions that they already have the money Satan gave them

Oh, that Goku and his Faustian pacts!


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Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2016, 03:33:54 AM »

    Offline Nia

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1 wish that would save lives and make all the Z fighters stronger is to wish they were all half Saiyan, or had the powers of a Saiyan, unless Akira Toriyama comes up with a God form for humans and Namekians. Also another wish that should have happened is to bring back Nappa, this dude was super loyal to Vegeta, and it would be and would've been cool to have a 3rd derpy (in a different kinda way) Saiyan.

(Hopefully Akira Toriyama just finds a way to bridge the gap without making all the Z fighters Saiyan.)
That wish is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from possible for Shenron. Keep in mind, he couldn't turn #17 and #18 back into humans, only to remove the bombs inside them.
And Nappa would be too weak to be of any use. If they wanna throw in a third Saiyajin, they could use Tarble, although he too is weak.
Let's not turn it into a Dragon Ball Heroes-esque level of fanfic.

On top of that, Buu could just absorb Piccolo. It really doesn't matter. Not even talking about the fact that only Gohan trusted Piccolo enough to do that.

Also, you could say Shenron doesn't have the power to bring those people back to life either. My question is, can Kami bring people back to life, or does Shenron also use magic rather than just the power of the "Dragon Master" or whatever we're calling it.
I don't think Kami can do it himself. Otherwise, there'd be no reason to use the Dragon Balls (not to mention he could have simply resurrected himself post-Saiyajin arc).

And there's no reason why Porunga can't bring them back, as it stands to reason he'd have been powered up as he was during the Buu arc in the main timeline. After all, Shenron revives Freeza, who is still in tiny chunks, more than a decade later in the latest movie. Hell, Goku could come back for one day due to his good behavior, Shunkan Ido himself to New Namek, grab Dende, return to Earth, and "ta-dah!" new Earth Dragon Balls.
The only thing that questionable is whether or not Porunga can revive multiple people at once only if they died within a year (something Shenron has a weakness of), or if he can do it regardless of how long they've been dead.


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2016, 06:22:08 AM »
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Two issues... the first is, Oolong actually suggested Shenron kill Vegeta and Nappa in space before they arrived on Earth, and Shenron said he couldn't do it. One would think that Shenron could have detonated their pods in space if it were within his power there. This means one of two things: You have to either be very specific, or Shenron actually isn't that powerful.
Not only that, but obviously, if someone doesn't wanna be warped into the sun, then the dragon can't do that (seeing as how Goku refused to return to Earth until he finished his training on Yardrat).

The second is, all the immortality in the world wouldn't do jack shit for Piccolo if he can't hurt his opponent. With immortality, Piccolo might be able to beat Nappa, but Vegeta would have still been far too much for him. And by the time Freeza rolled around, when he fused with Nail, Freeza still would have curbstomped him. After all, Freeza could just blow up Namek and leave, while leaving Piccolo floating in space for the next million years.
Immortality just means he can't die. It doesn't mean he can't be injured, or suddenly is almighty. And before you suggest him training, keep in mind he never stopped training. By the time he would be strong enough to beat Buu, it doesn't matter... Buu would have already wiped out the entire universe.

A better question would be, why didn't they use the Dragon Balls to ensure Goku never even got the heart virus? Why didn't they use the Dragon Balls to make sure they didn't run out of money (a constant worry Chichi has)? Why didn't they use Kaio-sama to find the location of New Namek to get the Dragon Balls to revive everyone in Trunks' timeline (save for Goku, who died of the heart virus, and therefor died of a natural causes and could not be resurrected)?

Goku refused to be teleported, right? But then how come the Namekians, Gohan, and Piccolo didn't have a choice when it came to being teleported to Earth? I'm sure at least one stubborn Namekian would be like, "but my ferari nooo". The "permission" rule doesn't make sense.

Instead of being sure not to get the virus, a better wish is for a vaccine, something that is used in our real world and entirely possible. Just a minor nitpick though.

Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2016, 06:52:49 AM »

    Offline Nia

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Goku refused to be teleported, right? But then how come the Namekians, Gohan, and Piccolo didn't have a choice when it came to being teleported to Earth? I'm sure at least one stubborn Namekian would be like, "but my ferari nooo". The "permission" rule doesn't make sense.

Instead of being sure not to get the virus, a better wish is for a vaccine, something that is used in our real world and entirely possible. Just a minor nitpick though.
Maybe, but there was definitely something wrong with Namek at the time, so it's possible they all just said "Anywhere is better than here." Who really knows?

And honestly, isn't nitpicking what brings up most of these questions? Let's be honest, Dragon Ball isn't what I'd call "high-brow intelligent entertainment." It's overall kinda dumb... and I'm actually somewhat thankful for that, as it's ultimately more fun when it acknowledges how dumb it is.


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2016, 07:06:33 AM »

    Offline Manphu

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I have only one question for this thread. One that i wanted to make for a long time.

Let's say that someone becomes immortal in DBZ ok?

Now. Let's say that Gohan becomes immortal. What would happen if he got sliced in 2?
I mean think about it. He becomes immortal not indestructible.(Except Piccolo, he can regenerate)

Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2016, 07:16:12 AM »
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I have only one question for this thread. One that i wanted to make for a long time.

Let's say that someone becomes immortal in DBZ ok?

Now. Let's say that Gohan becomes immortal. What would happen if he got sliced in 2?
I mean think about it. He becomes immortal not indestructible.(Except Piccolo, he can regenerate)

Then Gohan becomes incapacitated until his body regenerates. He basically becomes paralyzed, unable to move or breathe, though I doubt he needs to, seeing as how he's immortal. I don't know if you've watched Dragonball Super or FNF, but in both when Freiza is revived, he's revived in pieces, yet still alive. I think this is similar to what we would see with Gohan; a living mess. So, yes, he can't die, but he's not exactly breathing either. I hope this makes sense.

Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2016, 07:26:50 AM »

    Offline Manphu

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Then Gohan becomes incapacitated until his body regenerates. He basically becomes paralyzed, unable to move or breathe, though I doubt he needs to, seeing as how he's immortal. I don't know if you've watched Dragonball Super or FNF, but in both when Freiza is revived, he's revived in pieces, yet still alive. I think this is similar to what we would see with Gohan; a living mess. So, yes, he can't die, but he's not exactly breathing either. I hope this makes sense.

That was actually what i meant. Gohan would become paralyzed and unable to do anything(unlike Frieza who could even escape from Namek sliced in half). Also I doubt that Humans could develop a regenerating machine like that of Frieza's army, or even be able to use one. Actually, I don't think that they are aware of the machine at all. Although in theory that would be somewhat a solution. So i don't know, I am still kinda pensive around the subject.

Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2016, 08:02:44 AM »

    Offline Tofu

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That was actually what i meant. Gohan would become paralyzed and unable to do anything(unlike Frieza who could even escape from Namek sliced in half). Also I doubt that Humans could develop a regenerating machine like that of Frieza's army, or even be able to use one. Actually, I don't think that they are aware of the machine at all. Although in theory that would be somewhat a solution. So i don't know, I am still kinda pensive around the subject.

Bulma had always been great for technology. Probably, if she happened to get her hands on the machine that healed Frieza, she'd dominate it and the Z-fighters would be able to heal anyone. The problem is that they would need every single part of his body in order to have it working, from what I understood from the RoF movie. That means that, if Gohan were to be turned immortal, if the enemy happened to chop his arm off and burn it with an energy blast, they wouldn't be able to restore his arm.

Of course, all this is still not a viable solution since what Nia said is true: They become immortal, but they're remain as strong as they were before becoming immortal. Even if Gohan or Piccolo were to be immortal, he still wouldn't be able to protect the Earth from all the strong villains since they would probably blow up the planet before said immortal Z-fighter could get strong enough to beat the enemy.
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Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2016, 09:38:19 AM »
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Bulma had always been great for technology. Probably, if she happened to get her hands on the machine that healed Frieza, she'd dominate it and the Z-fighters would be able to heal anyone. The problem is that they would need every single part of his body in order to have it working, from what I understood from the RoF movie. That means that, if Gohan were to be turned immortal, if the enemy happened to chop his arm off and burn it with an energy blast, they wouldn't be able to restore his arm.

Of course, all this is still not a viable solution since what Nia said is true: They become immortal, but they're remain as strong as they were before becoming immortal. Even if Gohan or Piccolo were to be immortal, he still wouldn't be able to protect the Earth from all the strong villains since they would probably blow up the planet before said immortal Z-fighter could get strong enough to beat the enemy.

Unless of course, they were to use the Dragonballs to restore his arm to them, in which case they could regenerate Gohan. But enough about being incapacitated, it's getting a little off hand. I've got another question though, can the Dragonballs be used to summon another set of Dragonballs from the Super Dragonballs? If this is done often enough, won't that weaken the Super Dragonballs?

Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2016, 10:30:59 AM »

    Offline Tofu

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Unless of course, they were to use the Dragonballs to restore his arm to them, in which case they could regenerate Gohan. But enough about being incapacitated, it's getting a little off hand. I've got another question though, can the Dragonballs be used to summon another set of Dragonballs from the Super Dragonballs? If this is done often enough, won't that weaken the Super Dragonballs?

Super Dragon Balls? How much have I missed in DBS? Last I saw, Ginyu was back alive.
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Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2016, 10:41:07 AM »

    Offline Manphu

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Super Dragon Balls? How much have I missed in DBS? Last I saw, Ginyu was back alive.

Did he came back alive?
Or was he never alive to begin with?
« Last Edit: February 03, 2016, 08:21:55 PM by Manphu »

Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2016, 11:19:21 AM »

    Offline Tofu

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Did he came back alive?
Or he was never alive to begin with?


Well, he never actually died. By "back alive" I mean back in a body that could fight.
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Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2016, 11:27:59 AM »
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Super Dragon Balls? How much have I missed in DBS? Last I saw, Ginyu was back alive.

You missed a bunch. I've never seen Revival of F, or Battle of the Gods properly, so that's why I'm catching up on DBS. Plus, it's more convenient for me to watch, seeing as how they're 20 minute episodes, rather then a couple of hours.

If you want a proper rundown on how much, feel free to PM me.

Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2016, 03:04:05 PM »

    Offline Tofu

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You missed a bunch. I've never seen Revival of F, or Battle of the Gods properly, so that's why I'm catching up on DBS. Plus, it's more convenient for me to watch, seeing as how they're 20 minute episodes, rather then a couple of hours.

If you want a proper rundown on how much, feel free to PM me.

You should watch those movies. They're way better and they're shorter overall.

About DBS, don't spoil me. I'll eventually watch it.
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Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2016, 10:59:53 PM »

    Offline Kiyza

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You missed a bunch. I've never seen Revival of F, or Battle of the Gods properly, so that's why I'm catching up on DBS. Plus, it's more convenient for me to watch, seeing as how they're 20 minute episodes, rather then a couple of hours.

Yeah, if you're short on time, set aside an hour and a half for Battle of Gods or chunk things up into 20 minute segments if you can't manage for some reason. I can't comment on Super's quality directly, but you'll probably get more enjoyment out of something short and sweet. It's shorter, higher quality overall (the bits of wonky CGI are preferable to Super's hack job with animation) and you don't have to wait if you prefer the FUNimation voice cast to the Japanese one either.


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Dragonballs and Wishes (Spoilers)
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2016, 11:12:47 PM »

    Offline Luke[Dumke]

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Yeah, if you're short on time, set aside an hour and a half for Battle of Gods or chunk things up into 20 minute segments if you can't manage for some reason. I can't comment on Super's quality directly, but you'll probably get more enjoyment out of something short and sweet. It's shorter, higher quality overall (the bits of wonky CGI are preferable to Super's hack job with animation) and you don't have to wait if you prefer the FUNimation voice cast to the Japanese one either.

Could you imagine if dbsuper was done with 3d models like a few current anime?
That would be interesting
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