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Topic: CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD  (Read 6990 times)

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CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« on: November 13, 2015, 09:08:54 AM »

    Offline Tomlanji

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OH MY GOD ITS HAPPENING

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2015, 09:14:12 AM »

    Offline Roxas

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It's god damn beautiful.....
Holy sephiroth this is amazing .

Didnt your parents tell you not to play with me? Youll get burned.

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2015, 09:27:17 AM »

    Offline Mikecw.

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ANOTHER naughtyword ANIME SWORDSMAN



Hey uh, you know would be awesome? *snort*

if in brawl

they like

put in like

Cloud from Final Fantasy 7

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2015, 10:03:29 AM »
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That direct was pretty damn good, but tbh this was one of the largest disappointments I had while watching. I thought it might actually be something worthwhile they were adding based on the announcers expression.

Now, that "major update coming in December" THAT is something that is piquing my interest....I wonder if it'll actually be something that will vastly change smash....maybe like an Adventure mode *q* (I wouldn't mind a few new characters either).

This being said, I have no problems with Cloud being in smash bros. He is the type of character who "belongs" in there, as he is from an extremely critically acclaimed "masterpiece"; a game I have never played nor do I have much interest in, however. Therefore, his inclusion is hardly something that excites me at all; I would have much preferred Sora from Kingdom Hearts if we must go with something from Square Enix.

One last thing I should mention; I really don't understand the appeal of including characters who are the main character of whatever franchise they choose. Think about it, most people prefer not the "Mario's" of the game, but instead the "Luigi's"....A perfect example of what I'm talking about is Ryu's implementation. Who in their right mind honestly wanted the most boring character from ANY Capcom fighter (who is already in half a bajillion crossover fighting games) in Smash Bros.? There are so many other vibrant and awesome personalities from the world of Street Fighter they could have included....it seems like a major missed opportunity in my opinion.
no

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2015, 10:04:06 AM »

    Offline Roxas

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It's a pretty unique character to have and I didn't expect it . You just mad they didn't have yu yu fagasho in it Mike . Cloud is pretty cool to have in the game . It's not like they added goku or Dante from devil may cry . Quit hating .


Crane , having the most iconic character from a series does make sense. For example ness , pit, donkey kong , sonic , shulk , little Mac etc. all these games have plenty of other characters they could have used .

Didnt your parents tell you not to play with me? Youll get burned.

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2015, 10:07:28 AM »

    Offline Nia

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ANOTHER naughtyword ANIME SWORDSMAN



Hey uh, you know would be awesome? *snort*

if in brawl

they like

put in like

Cloud from Final Fantasy 7
To be honest, I kinda thought of that video when I heard about this...

That being said... as much as I like the character, it seems a bit dumb to use him. Especially seeing as how Final Fantasy VII is most notably associated with the PS1, and I'd be a bit surprised if the remake even sees the light of day on a Nintendo system (could surprise me, of course).

I realize FFVII is the most popular installment of the franchise, but they really should have used a protagonist from a more Nintendo-centric Final Fantasy title. This just feels like shoehorned pandering.

Honestly, why not use someone like...


Think about it... they'd be satisfying three things with Crono.
1st: People fecking love Chrono Trigger. This would be a great throwback.
2nd: You fulfill the role of a character associated with Nintendo history. Cloud at most has had appearances, and even that upcoming Final Fantasy Adventures really isn't the same thing. Cloud is most known for a PlayStation game, and it's just odd to see him here.
3rd: Crono looks like Goku. Give him an alternate color scheme that mimics Goku. That'll shut up enough of the people trying to force him in there.


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2015, 10:26:25 AM »
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Crane , having the most iconic character from a series does make sense. For example ness , pit, donkey kong , sonic , shulk , little Mac etc. all these games have plenty of other characters they could have used .

Ness cannot hold the entire Mother series, in my opinion. They should have never given him moves he couldn't actually use in the first place. I would've welcomed Paula and Poo with open arms as playable characters alongside Nessy boy...especially given how long it's been since the first Smash.

Pit is an alright representation of Kid Icarus, but they also added a much needed Palutena to accompany him, which did the representation a world of good imo (personally I would have preferred Viridi, the delicious, tsundere loli goddes of nature, but I suppose beggars cannot be choosers).

Donkey Kong is not really a main character, persay. He is more of a side character of the Mario universe who had his own spinoff series due to his popularity (as being a side character generally generates more popularity as I detailed in my above post). Diddy, Dixie, Funky, and Cranky are all vastly more interesting than Donkey imo, and at least two of the ones who have not been included that I just mention SHOULD have been imo..

Shulk is a little naughtyword from a new-ass game with NO sequels that have released yet (and the sequel won't even include Shulk when it does release). Almost no one has played Xenoblade, it is not a "classic", and it is way too new to include such a souless character.

Now, Sonic and Little Mac I will agree are the best possible choice from their respective series to include as playable characters in Smash Bros.

That being said... as much as I like the character, it seems a bit dumb to use him. Especially seeing as how Final Fantasy VII is most notably associated with the PS1, and I'd be a bit surprised if the remake even sees the light of day on a Nintendo system (could surprise me, of course).

Honestly, why not use someone like...


Think about it... they'd be satisfying three things with Crono.
1st: People fecking love Chrono Trigger. This would be a great throwback.
2nd: You fulfill the role of a character associated with Nintendo history. Cloud at most has had appearances, and even that upcoming Final Fantasy Adventures really isn't the same thing. Cloud is most known for a PlayStation game, and it's just odd to see him here.
3rd: Crono looks like Goku. Give him an alternate color scheme that mimics Goku. That'll shut up enough of the people trying to force him in there.

^This makes a great deal of sense. He would be as fitting if not moreso than Cloud. Than again, I could care less since both of these characters mean nothing to me personally.
no

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2015, 10:32:12 AM »

    Offline Nia

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Now, Sonic and Little Mac I will agree are the best possible choice from their respective series to include as playable characters in Smash Bros.



(Jokes aside, Sonic fits in great, and I think people prolly would have been pissed if Knuckles showed up but not the Blue Blur.)


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2015, 10:36:00 AM »
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Knuckles would have been a great addition. And so would Tails and even Amy or Shadow imo.  But I still think that Sonic himself is the best representation of the Sonic series.

And again, personally, I would've wanted delicious, loli rabbit to join the fray but of course I know that would never happen (as long as Rogue never comes in, I'll be able to tolerate this fact).
no

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2015, 10:41:32 AM »

    Offline Nia

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Knuckles would have been a great addition. And so would Tails and even Amy or Shadow imo.  But I still think that Sonic himself is the best representation of the Sonic series.

And again, personally, I would've wanted delicious, loli rabbit to join the fray but of course I know that would never happen (as long as Rogue never comes in, I'll be able to tolerate this fact).

Well, of course Sonic would be the best representation of the franchise (he IS the franchise), although as you said anyone would have fit the part pretty well.

Except that god damn rabbit. She is literally the worst character of the entire Sonic franchise. And that's saying a lot (especially considering the comics exist).


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2015, 10:45:51 AM »
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Except that god damn rabbit. She is literally the worst character of the entire Sonic franchise. And that's saying a lot (especially considering the comics exist).

Cream was an awesome character in the game she debuted in, Sonic Advance 2 (which was, incidentally my favorite 2-d sonic game outside of the classics).



In fact, she was the most OP character in the game. Using her was practically cheating, as she was so damn good.
no

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2015, 10:49:41 AM »

    Offline Tomlanji

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Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories
Kingdom Hearts: Recoded
Theatrhythm Final Fantasy: Curtain Call
The new Final Fantasy game on 3DS will have Cloud as a playable character
And Final Fantasy 7 was originally going to be on the N64.
Maybe this means the NX will have the FFVII Remake?

But Cloud looks powerful, I am far too hyped.

Imagine a One Winged Angel remix in Smash...oh lord...

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2015, 10:53:39 AM »
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Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories
Kingdom Hearts: Recoded
Theatrhythm Final Fantasy: Curtain Call
The new Final Fantasy game on 3DS will have Cloud as a playable character
And Final Fantasy 7 was originally going to be on the N64.
Maybe this means the NX will have the FFVII Remake?

But Cloud looks powerful, I am far too hyped.

Imagine a One Winged Angel remix in Smash...oh lord...
I am digging the moveset, and the fact we have another character who wields a bigass sword in the game pleases me (yes Ike's sword isn't ridiculously big, but it's still a Claymore that he can wield with one hand).

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2015, 10:56:12 AM »

    Offline Roxas

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As far as sonic  is concerned the only bad sonic addition is silver , and whatever alien things that are in colors . And that new creature who I know nothing about because naughtyword sonic boom .

Didnt your parents tell you not to play with me? Youll get burned.

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2015, 10:59:36 AM »

    Offline Nia

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Cream was an awesome character in the game she debuted in, Sonic Advance 2 (which was, incidentally my favorite 2-d sonic game outside of the classics).

In fact, she was the most OP character in the game. Using her was practically cheating, as she was so damn good.

She debuted in the only Sonic Advance game that wasn't good, and regardless of her capabilities, she is one of the most annoying characters ever created.
She adds nothing to the franchise, has a voice so screechy that even Chris Tucker on helium sounds less irritating, and most importantly, there's only one rabbit who belongs in the Sonic franchise.


Go Rabbot or get out.

Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories
Kingdom Hearts: Recoded
Theatrhythm Final Fantasy: Curtain Call
The new Final Fantasy game on 3DS will have Cloud as a playable character
And Final Fantasy 7 was originally going to be on the N64.
Maybe this means the NX will have the FFVII Remake?

But Cloud looks powerful, I am far too hyped.

Cameo appearances and fanservice.
That'd be like putting Vegeta into Marvel vs. Capcom, just because someone drew him into a crowd in a Fantastic Four comic.
And even so, where do you generally associate him with? Half-baked spin-offs, or Final Fantasy VII... the game that pretty much made the PS1? And I'm pretty sure "originally planned for the N64" means nothing, as the only content that was ever considered for the N64 was a tech demo of FFVI in 3D.
Sorry, Cloud just does not fit the bill, no matter how you try to rationalize it.

Also, considering they announced the remake of FFVII specifically at Sony's conference at E3... it'd be a poor move on Squeenix's part to announce it for any other system any time soon.


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2015, 11:11:23 AM »

    Offline Tomlanji

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Cameo appearances and fanservice.
That'd be like putting Vegeta into Marvel vs. Capcom, just because someone drew him into a crowd in a Fantastic Four comic.
And even so, where do you generally associate him with? Half-baked spin-offs, or Final Fantasy VII... the game that pretty much made the PS1? And I'm pretty sure "originally planned for the N64" means nothing, as the only content that was ever considered for the N64 was a tech demo of FFVI in 3D.
Sorry, Cloud just does not fit the bill, no matter how you try to rationalize it.

Also, considering they announced the remake of FFVII specifically at Sony's conference at E3... it'd be a poor move on Squeenix's part to announce it for any other system any time soon.
Of course you'd think of Cloud's actual game when you think of Cloud, I was simply listing the games on Nintendo' systems to say that he has been on Nintendo's systems before. So he isn't totally random. And I never said he fit the bill :X. And they said "Experience it FIRST, on Playstation 4". So Xbone is pretty much confirmed. If the NX is as strong as people are saying, then the remake could be announced on E3 or something.

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2015, 11:20:40 AM »

    Offline Nia

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Of course you'd think of Cloud's actual game when you think of Cloud, I was simply listing the games on Nintendo' systems to say that he has been on Nintendo's systems before. So he isn't totally random. And I never said he fit the bill :X. And they said "Experience it FIRST, on Playstation 4". So Xbone is pretty much confirmed. If the NX is as strong as people are saying, then the remake could be announced on E3 or something.
Or maybe they meant PC and not the Xbone, especially considering the Xbone's lack of popularity when it comes to JRPGs.

He really is pretty random.
Especially since Square-Enix specifically moved over to Sony JUST FOR THAT GAME.

Considering there were six Final Fantasy games (not to mention titles like Chrono Trigger and the first three Seiken Densetsu/Mana games) before Square made the jump over to Sony, and there have been several games on Nintendo consoles since, it seems a bit blasphemous to use the protagonist most recognizable from the game that basically left a permanent bootprint on Nintendo's ass.


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2015, 01:10:52 PM »

    Offline Shyruni

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I see this in a few different lights.  One, while Cloud isn't necessarily Nintendo property, neither was Solid Snake.   It's never a bad idea to throw in at least one character that isn't exactly Nintendo to attract outside gamers, it makes sense from a Nintendo perspective.

As for why him and not others, let's face it, they can't give us every character they want, and it's possible Sakurai wanted to try something new.  And honestly out of all the older FF games, I feel like he fits Smash the best, outside maybe the FF3 guy. And who knows, maybe they'll include a Zack skin :D
We WILL Protect the Peace!

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2015, 01:49:53 PM »

    Offline Nia

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I see this in a few different lights.  One, while Cloud isn't necessarily Nintendo property, neither was Solid Snake.   It's never a bad idea to throw in at least one character that isn't exactly Nintendo to attract outside gamers, it makes sense from a Nintendo perspective.

As for why him and not others, let's face it, they can't give us every character they want, and it's possible Sakurai wanted to try something new.  And honestly out of all the older FF games, I feel like he fits Smash the best, outside maybe the FF3 guy. And who knows, maybe they'll include a Zack skin :D

I'm well aware that Snake wasn't a Nintendo property (nor is Sonic, Megaman, or Ryu). That's not the issue I take with it.

My point is, there's Final Fantasy characters much more greatly associated with Nintendo's past (who have would fit in just as well, if not better). There's also spin-offs and what not on Nintendo's systems that have characters who would fit (like the aforementioned Crono).
The issue I take is that they shoved in a character who is quite clearly the opposite of Nintendo's history... namely the protagonist of the game that jumped ship. They merely chose Cloud because he's popular, as opposed to being actually related to a game that's built up of Nintendo's history over the years. And honestly, using a Zack skin would only compound this issue, as Zack has only appeared in PlayStation exclusive titles (Crisis Core, FFVII, Birth By sleep, and Ehrgeiz).

Considering there was six... SIX Final Fantasy games on the Nintendo systems before Cloud was created for the PlayStation's title... there's no excuse to shoehorn him in. It's blatant and lazy, and they're using him merely because he's Cloud, as opposed to actually being a character who fits the series' archetype.

In short... Cloud doesn't belong in this game because he has NEVER had a meaningful role in any games on a Nintendo system, and is in no way associated with the company's history. Solid Snake has had full fledged games on a Nintendo console, Megaman originated on the NES, and Sonic the Hedgehog has had many exclusive appearances on the system. They all make sense. But Cloud? No. Not even remotely.

Why not someone like Cecil from FFIV? Bartz from FFV? Terra, Celes, or really just about anyone from FFVI. All of them have defined abilities (not to mention were given just as much to work with in Dissidia as Cloud, showing they could work in a fighting game, albeit an awful one). Hell, even the guy from Mystic Quest would make sense (and would actually be a hilarious choice).
Why not one of the characters from Secret of Mana, or better yet, one of the protagonists of Seiken Densetsu 3? Perhaps the dog that turns into a toaster from Secret of Evermore (even though that game was awful, and was the main reason Seiken 3 never saw the light of day outside of Japan).
Any single character from Chrono Trigger fits the bill. And CT's fanbase is almost as big as FFVII's, not to mention would quell the Dragon Ball fanbase, since they were designed by Toriyama.

It's not that Cloud isn't a Nintendo character. Third party characters are fine. But for heaven's sake, use a character ACTUALLY ASSOCIATED WITH NINTENDO HISTORY. They shoved him in there lazily because they didn't want to put any effort behind it. Because it's Cloud, and he's popular. There's characters who would fit Smash far, FAR better, instead of being a blatant excuse for them to half-ass it.

If Cloud had a meaningful role beyond random cameo or lazy fanservice in any Nintendo-bound title, that would be different. But he doesn't. You could replace his appearance with literally anyone in those games, and it would make no difference. They should have used a character that actually had a role in a Nintendo-based game.


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2015, 02:34:47 PM »

    Offline Luke[Dumke]

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CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2015, 02:55:46 PM »
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Do you guys think this will be the final entry in the Smash Bros. series? It seems like they're adding characters left and right of varying appropriateness...makes me think that they are just milking it as much as possible so this will be the last time doing so.

I can't imagine them having another Smash Bros. in which they require you to buy tons of the same characters as dlc again....maybe they'd include the entire dlc roster as the non-dlc roster? Sounds a little unlikely. Unless the next Smash is such a huge upgrade over this one that people don't mind shelling out their cash just for the same characters again (in my opinion this would require an immense change to either the structure of the game; vastly upgraded gameplay mechanics, or an astounding visual upgrade which would blow Smash 4 out of the water).
no

CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2015, 04:03:59 PM »

    Offline Shyruni

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Do you guys think this will be the final entry in the Smash Bros. series? It seems like they're adding characters left and right of varying appropriateness...makes me think that they are just milking it as much as possible so this will be the last time doing so.

I can't imagine them having another Smash Bros. in which they require you to buy tons of the same characters as dlc again....maybe they'd include the entire dlc roster as the non-dlc roster? Sounds a little unlikely. Unless the next Smash is such a huge upgrade over this one that people don't mind shelling out their cash just for the same characters again (in my opinion this would require an immense change to either the structure of the game; vastly upgraded gameplay mechanics, or an astounding visual upgrade which would blow Smash 4 out of the water).

Hard to say, seeing as we don't know what the next Nintendo system will be capable of.   It's too soon to decide whether or not there will be another Smash, imo.
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CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2015, 04:35:51 PM »

    Offline Roxas

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I'm well aware that Snake wasn't a Nintendo property (nor is Sonic, Megaman, or Ryu). That's not the issue I take with it.

My point is, there's Final Fantasy characters much more greatly associated with Nintendo's past (who have would fit in just as well, if not better). There's also spin-offs and what not on Nintendo's systems that have characters who would fit (like the aforementioned Crono).
The issue I take is that they shoved in a character who is quite clearly the opposite of Nintendo's history... namely the protagonist of the game that jumped ship. They merely chose Cloud because he's popular, as opposed to being actually related to a game that's built up of Nintendo's history over the years. And honestly, using a Zack skin would only compound this issue, as Zack has only appeared in PlayStation exclusive titles (Crisis Core, FFVII, Birth By sleep, and Ehrgeiz).

Considering there was six... SIX Final Fantasy games on the Nintendo systems before Cloud was created for the PlayStation's title... there's no excuse to shoehorn him in. It's blatant and lazy, and they're using him merely because he's Cloud, as opposed to actually being a character who fits the series' archetype.

In short... Cloud doesn't belong in this game because he has NEVER had a meaningful role in any games on a Nintendo system, and is in no way associated with the company's history. Solid Snake has had full fledged games on a Nintendo console, Megaman originated on the NES, and Sonic the Hedgehog has had many exclusive appearances on the system. They all make sense. But Cloud? No. Not even remotely.

Why not someone like Cecil from FFIV? Bartz from FFV? Terra, Celes, or really just about anyone from FFVI. All of them have defined abilities (not to mention were given just as much to work with in Dissidia as Cloud, showing they could work in a fighting game, albeit an awful one). Hell, even the guy from Mystic Quest would make sense (and would actually be a hilarious choice).
Why not one of the characters from Secret of Mana, or better yet, one of the protagonists of Seiken Densetsu 3? Perhaps the dog that turns into a toaster from Secret of Evermore (even though that game was awful, and was the main reason Seiken 3 never saw the light of day outside of Japan).
Any single character from Chrono Trigger fits the bill. And CT's fanbase is almost as big as FFVII's, not to mention would quell the Dragon Ball fanbase, since they were designed by Toriyama.

It's not that Cloud isn't a Nintendo character. Third party characters are fine. But for heaven's sake, use a character ACTUALLY ASSOCIATED WITH NINTENDO HISTORY. They shoved him in there lazily because they didn't want to put any effort behind it. Because it's Cloud, and he's popular. There's characters who would fit Smash far, FAR better, instead of being a blatant excuse for them to half-ass it.

If Cloud had a meaningful role beyond random cameo or lazy fanservice in any Nintendo-bound title, that would be different. But he doesn't. You could replace his appearance with literally anyone in those games, and it would make no difference. They should have used a character that actually had a role in a Nintendo-based game.
I disagree and here's why, like Ryu , Snake , and a few others I can't think of at the top of my head , they have not been in a crap load of Nintendo games . However as third party as they are Nintendo and other companies recognize that characters are known outside of their own company . An example being bayonetta 2 being released for Wii u when the first one was on the playstation system . They also advertised with the pre existing expectation that people have already played the first one on the PlayStation .( the Wii u came with the firs game as a bonus though ). Meaning it doesn't really matter clouds main game wasn't on a Nintendo system . He's been related too in plenty of other square enix titles. Including theathrythm

Now here's to main point , cloud is pretty much the most well known final fantasy character out their not to mention the first 3D final fantasy . Even people who never played 7 know who cloud is . He is pretty damn popular and known for his skills , more so than the ones you used as an example . Not saying they are unpopular by any means , just not as popular . Cloud even got his own movie , which was stupid but it just adds on to his popularity scale . When adding characters from a non Nintendo series they of course would choose the a fan favorite from the series as well as include sort of an updated look to the character  , Snake, Sonic , Ryu , mega man ~
It's actually nothing like putting vegeta in marvel vs capcom as Cloud belongs to the 3rd party teaming up Nintendo , and he is actually a square enix character .vegeta is neither capcom or marvel . They could have added the characters from the Ames titles and such but it wouldn't have had the same effect . They aren't as iconic .

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CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2015, 05:20:48 PM »

    Offline Nia

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I disagree and here's why, like Ryu , Snake , and a few others I can't think of at the top of my head , they have not been in a crap load of Nintendo games . However as third party as they are Nintendo and other companies recognize that characters are known outside of their own company . An example being bayonetta 2 being released for Wii u when the first one was on the playstation system . They also advertised with the pre existing expectation that people have already played the first one on the PlayStation .( the Wii u came with the firs game as a bonus though ). Meaning it doesn't really matter clouds main game wasn't on a Nintendo system . He's been related too in plenty of other square enix titles. Including theathrythm

Now here's to main point , cloud is pretty much the most well known final fantasy character out their not to mention the first 3D final fantasy . Even people who never played 7 know who cloud is . He is pretty damn popular and known for his skills , more so than the ones you used as an example . Not saying they are unpopular by any means , just not as popular . Cloud even got his own movie , which was stupid but it just adds on to his popularity scale . When adding characters from a non Nintendo series they of course would choose the a fan favorite from the series as well as include sort of an updated look to the character  , Snake, Sonic , Ryu , mega man ~
It's actually nothing like putting vegeta in marvel vs capcom as Cloud belongs to the 3rd party teaming up Nintendo , and he is actually a square enix character .vegeta is neither capcom or marvel . They could have added the characters from the Ames titles and such but it wouldn't have had the same effect . They aren't as iconic .

If you think Snake, and especially Ryu haven't been in a lot of Nintendo games, obviously you don't know your history.

Snake appeared in:
Metal Gear
Snake's Revenge (granted, this was non-canon and western made, however the point is, he WAS there.
Metal Gear: Ghost Babel
Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes
Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater 3D
Metal Gear (MSX version on the Virtual Console)
Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake (MSX version on the Virtual Console).
Not a huge list, but enough to be notable, and he wasn't just some passing cameo or blatant fanservice. Twin Snakes in particular is pretty recognizable, as it was a GameCube exclusive, essentially adding MGS1 to the MGS2 engine.

As for Ryu... I can't even begin to list all the games he was in that landed on Nintendo systems, because it is a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE amount.

First off, my point is, NOBODY associates Cloud with Nintendo. His appearances have been entirely fanservice, and have had virtually no value to the franchise.
Name a single game on a Nintendo system in which Cloud played a major role that amounted to anything other than a cameo. His entire appearance in Kingdom Hearts is nothing more than blatant fanservice. His entire appearance in all these spin-offs is nothing more than blatant fanservice. He serves no other role than to be Cloud.

The reason everyone knows who Cloud is is because he was the main character in a major PLAYSTATION game. That is not Nintendo history. That's pretty much the polar opposite of Nintendo history.

And Bayonetta is a terrible example because A. The first game wasn't a PlayStation exclusive, B. The first game was released on the Wii U, C. The second game was specifically made exclusively for the Wii U, and D. Bayonetta 2 was funded by Nintendo. She wasn't a background character, thrown in for the hell of it. She was the main character of a major title released specifically for that game, rather than a reference to a franchise entirely unrelated to that console.

Moreover, Advent Children wasn't a "Cloud" movie. It was a full-fledged continuation to serve as an epilogue to FFVII, and focused on more than just Cloud. In fact, the movie's title specifically refers to the Sephiroth remnants, and the orphans infected with Geo-Stigma. It wasn't made to add to the popularity of Cloud, it was made to serve as proper closure to the events of FFVII... not to mention it was made seven years after the height of FFVII's popularity.
More importantly, how was it stupid? It was perfectly intelligent, if you ever actually bothered to play the game.

Yes, the other characters are not as iconic as Cloud, but THAT IS NOT THE POINT. Cloud is iconic because of a title that was NEVER released in any way, shape, or form on ANY Nintendo console. None of the compilation of Final Fantasy VII has touched on a Nintendo system, and pretty much was the game that saw the Nintendo 64 burn to the ground.
He shouldn't be in there just because he's popular. He should be in there because he has an actual purpose in Nintendo history, not just as a blatant "HERE'S CLOUD! BUY OUR SHIT!"

It's simple common sense that they're pandering. Rather than using a character actually associated with the platform who's history they've been representing, they're going for a character WHO HAS NO REASON TO BE IN A NINTENDO-BASED FIGHTING GAME.
They could use a character like Crono, and actually, it would probably have a bigger effect than using a character who pretty much represents an anti-Nintendo fanbase. Not to mention, a character like Crono, who hasn't been seen in proper form in years, would provide a lot of affection from A. The loyal Nintendo fanbase, who has remained with Nintendo, and ONLY Nintendo, and B. people who love nostalgic classics, as opposed to people who recognize an icon from a competing console.

I get it. You like Cloud. And guess what? Final Fantasy VII is actually one of my favorite games of all time... which is PRECISELY WHY HE SHOULD NOT BE IN SMASH. Because it's an insult to the history of Nintendo to use a character created specifically for an opposing console, who has NEVER had any real importance to Nintendo's history.

You may as well throw in Princess Elise from Sonic '06. I'm sure she was mentioned somewhere in something like Sonic Chronicles. She's about as important to the history of Nintendo as Cloud is.

Throwing Cloud in there is lazy, uninspired, and most of all, meaningless. It's a shameful use of an iconic character instead of one who actually makes sense.
If you don't want to see that, that's your problem, but don't act like he's ever been a real part of Nintendo history. He's less important than the king in the Zelda CD-I games.



They may as well just shoehorn Goku in at this point. He may not be primarily a game character, but he has more to do with the history of Nintendo than Cloud does.


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CLOUD IS IN SMASH BROTHERS HOLY GOD
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2015, 11:24:22 PM »

    Offline Kiyza

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I think everyone here is forgetting a few things. Like Nia, I’m kind of miffed that a character who has nothing to with Nintendo is getting into Smash, which used to be the “Nintendo club”. I honestly think that Cloud will probably end up being exclusive to this Smash Bros. incarnation simply because maintaining a connection with SquareEnix might be a pain. It might be why we didn’t see Snake return for Smash 4, even though he’s a very unique character for fighters in general, not just Smash (I can’t actually think of another bulky/slow projectile user, barring MvC3 Dormammu -- and I’ve played quite a few fighters lately).

However, the reason he’s put in over any other SquEnix character is simple: iconism. You might not have played FFVII, but you sure as hell know who Cloud Strife is. Come to think of it, the same goes for the other third-party DLC rep, Ryu. They need this measure of iconism in order to actually sell the character, because $5 is a pretty good chunk of money to ask for upfront, even if it arguably is a reasonable cost (making a character for a fighting game is very time consuming and it’s why most rosters in the genre are built up over time, and they have to cover the cost of still having people work on the game’s patches). I think the only character who gets by on popularity, fits the Nintendo criteria, is a Final Fantasy character is probably Kefka. I don’t even know who the main character of the game is, but the villain is rather infamous.

Still, I think if you were to use any other character (barring maybe Sephiroth, who’s quite iconic in his own right), you would probably get backlash from simply not having the most notable character from the series represent in Smash. Can you imagine if they used Chun-Li instead of Ryu, Ms. Pac-Man over regular Pac-Man, Knuckles over Sonic, Raiden over Snake, or Zero over MegaMan? Ironically, I’d love most of those and wouldn’t be salty over anything but the last one. (Then again, I’m also the only the only person who unironically loves Raiden, even before he became a cyborg. Probably my second favorite vidya main character, after Snake -- and I will defend this position and understand if you disagree.) I actually think the only character you could conceivably get away with this with is using Morrigan from Darkstalkers over Demitri Maximoff, and that’s because of three things: Morrigan replacing him as the main character, her greater exposure to people who have never played Darkstalkers (as in, most gamers), and doing an additional character model for Midnight Bliss for most characters would be a pain compared to the ye olden days where you just needed a sprite.

But I digress. @Nia, I get your complaint, but you have to think about this from a financial standpoint. Which is going to sell more downloads: Crono or Cloud? We live in a day when the roster of a fighting game alone can sell copies of it. Mortal Kombat Vs DC Universe sold almost 2 million copies -- and several hundred thousand more than the actually pretty good (if you ignore the garbage plot and focus on the fighting) Injustice. Final Fantasy VII fangirls are ravenous, and we might even see a few people chip in just because Cloud is in the game. Sounds strange, I know, but why do you think Final Fantasy stuff got incorporated into Kingdom Hearts?

Anyway, just some food for thought. I probably won’t be getting Cloud myself due simply to not having money for all of this DLC. It’ll probably have to wait for when my financial situation isn’t in a pinch and I go back to playing Smash instead of going overboard with the sheer number of fighters I’m trying out. (Thank you based money-having, fighter-loving gamer girlfriend.)


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