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Topic: Who do you think would win?  (Read 2483 times)

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Who do you think would win?
« on: September 03, 2015, 06:28:59 AM »
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I know this might start a heated debate, but I am curious to learn more about each character. ^^ Team Z or Team 7?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 02:19:30 PM by Luke[Dumke], Reason: formatting »

Who do you think would win?
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2015, 06:41:51 AM »

    Offline Manphu

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You really like those battles don't you?.
Well my heart is on Team Z. Want an explanation?
Because ok Naruto is also very OP with those jutsu and stuff (i have never watched naruto after some part cause it just didn't captivate me) in terms of techniques Naruto may win , but in term of expertise in martial arts or fighting i believe none in anime can top the Team Z duo.

Maybe i am not the person who is qualified for this debate but i just thought that i must share my opinion :)

Who do you think would win?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2015, 06:48:19 AM »
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If i was you, i will avoid creating a thread of every of your post about who's gonna win and regroup them in one singel post ^^

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Who do you think would win?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2015, 06:49:00 AM »

    Offline Nia

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To quote Vegeta: "Kakaroto won't even need a turn!" One of them by themselves in their normal form can vaporize a planet without breaking a sweat. It's really not a fair comparison.


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

Who do you think would win?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2015, 06:52:37 AM »

    Offline Parrish

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Naruto and Sasuke have gotten stronger, but they're nowhere near Goku and Vegeta powers. They can't even keep up. The only thing that someone will argue is if Sasuke Mangekyou or Rinnegan will effect them. I don't think it would at all, so Team Z stomps
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« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2015, 06:53:35 AM »
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Arigato Link! I did not think about that... heh I am still new...;/

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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2015, 08:28:00 AM »

    Offline SSJGGoku

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Team Z ftw

Special thanks to Kaiza for this awesome sig!

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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2015, 08:48:14 AM »
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Hi, I3lack here! <(That's gonna be regular now xD)

Well here's what I think:
Naruto & Sasuke using Hagoromo's power and being at full power too, might be able to defeat Goku at Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan (Because SSGSS is weaker than SSG). Because there isn't any jutsu-users in DBZ, Sasuke's genjutsu will prove effective on both of them, which will allow them to counter attack with OP jutsu. However, Goku and Vegeta will just get back up, a little damaged. Sasuke's Susanoo and Naruto's (Cant remember what it means when naruto has Kurama out so he can ride him (not gay) and let him attack and stuff) Kurama won't work on Goku and Vegeta because, well, there not fast and Goku and Vegeta can just use instant transmission to get behind and use some crazy kamehameha/galick gun and break a hole in the 'neck' maybe to allow goku and vegeta inside to fk dem up...

Well what I'm really saying is we dont know who would win really... We can all go for DBZ because of, and basically only because of, goku's opness, but on the other hand Chakra could be way stronger than ki and Naruto and Sasuke could just shrug off Ki attacks like trying to kill a giant by flicking its toe... This could all be possible, but you dont know, do ya? o.O

Well, if its a up close battle Naruto and Sasuke are fk'd forever, but if long range, how will Chakra go up against ki? You dont know, so don't make assumptions  >:(

*leaves to let everyone ponder*
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 08:53:10 AM by I3lackAura »

Who do you think would win?
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2015, 09:45:52 AM »

    Offline Nia

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Hi, I3lack here! <(That's gonna be regular now xD)

Well here's what I think:
Naruto & Sasuke using Hagoromo's power and being at full power too, might be able to defeat Goku at Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan (Because SSGSS is weaker than SSG). Because there isn't any jutsu-users in DBZ, Sasuke's genjutsu will prove effective on both of them, which will allow them to counter attack with OP jutsu. However, Goku and Vegeta will just get back up, a little damaged. Sasuke's Susanoo and Naruto's (Cant remember what it means when naruto has Kurama out so he can ride him (not gay) and let him attack and stuff) Kurama won't work on Goku and Vegeta because, well, there not fast and Goku and Vegeta can just use instant transmission to get behind and use some crazy kamehameha/galick gun and break a hole in the 'neck' maybe to allow goku and vegeta inside to fk dem up...

Well what I'm really saying is we dont know who would win really... We can all go for DBZ because of, and basically only because of, goku's opness, but on the other hand Chakra could be way stronger than ki and Naruto and Sasuke could just shrug off Ki attacks like trying to kill a giant by flicking its toe... This could all be possible, but you dont know, do ya? o.O

Well, if its a up close battle Naruto and Sasuke are fk'd forever, but if long range, how will Chakra go up against ki? You dont know, so don't make assumptions  >:(

*leaves to let everyone ponder*

Um... again, Goku and Vegeta can quite literally vaporize an entire planet in their normal forms (as in, not even SSJ1). I'm pretty sure nobody in Naruto has that kind of power.
Also, Chakra is more or less the same concept as Ki... something Goku and Vegeta are far more adept at using. Moreover, Genjutsu can be overcome by way of mental focus and the like. Goku in particular has been shown at being good at using his many senses.


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

Who do you think would win?
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2015, 09:51:50 AM »
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I know this is not canon, but you are correct goku displays great use of senses when he was blinded.

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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2015, 12:47:00 PM »

    Offline Kiyza

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If i was you, i will avoid creating a thread of every of your post about who's gonna win and regroup them in one singel post ^^

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@Megurine Luka: I really just think that you should just slow down with the number of Vs threads you're starting and maybe limit it to like once every few days if you feel an incessant urge to post. I feel like making it all into one big Vs topic would stifle discussion for people who want to argue about these types of things. You move on to a new fight and it kind of makes people think that they can't argue about the one that was previously discussed... or you have someone necroing and talking about a fight that was brought up over a month ago. I ain't a mod, though, and LvS's word comes before mine.

To quote Vegeta: "Kakaroto won't even need a turn!" One of them by themselves in their normal form can vaporize a planet without breaking a sweat. It's really not a fair comparison.

Let's be fair here, though. Being able to vaporize a planet (which technically isn't the correct term because vaporization implies that it's turned into a vapor -- a gaseous form -- while they're really just blowing them to smithereens) will not necessarily save you from a character that doesn't rely on the usual "hit things really hard" method of fighting. For example, offensive psychics and characters who can manipulate matter are good examples of types that would fare well against Dragon Ball characters... provided they can get a hit in.

The issue lies in the fact that Vegeta in particular is more the type to shoot first and ask questions later (though Goku would probably draw the fight out long enough to get a grip on his opponent's level of strength and look for a good fight in it, putting him at greater risk), so you'd probably need a character who can take a solid hit from Vegeta, which is easier said than done, especially because of his speed. There are definitely characters who can do that, but I honestly just think that Naruto and the Sauce would get manhandled in short order. Afterward, Goku would whine about how he didn't even get to fight them. Unless I'm missing some clause about the nature of their powers or something. I didn't stick late game for Naruto and dropped it pretty early into its existence.


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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2015, 02:23:36 PM »

    Offline Nia

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Let's be fair here, though. Being able to vaporize a planet (which technically isn't the correct term because vaporization implies that it's turned into a vapor -- a gaseous form -- while they're really just blowing them to smithereens) will not necessarily save you from a character that doesn't rely on the usual "hit things really hard" method of fighting. For example, offensive psychics and characters who can manipulate matter are good examples of types that would fare well against Dragon Ball characters... provided they can get a hit in.

Details, details... meaningless blown to smithereens details.

Also, because I love this animation:
Spoiler for Hidden:


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

Who do you think would win?
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2015, 07:11:56 PM »

    Offline Jak

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@Megurine Luka: I really just think that you should just slow down with the number of Vs threads you're starting and maybe limit it to like once every few days if you feel an incessant urge to post. I feel like making it all into one big Vs topic would stifle discussion for people who want to argue about these types of things. You move on to a new fight and it kind of makes people think that they can't argue about the one that was previously discussed... or you have someone necroing and talking about a fight that was brought up over a month ago. I ain't a mod, though, and LvS's word comes before mine.

Let's be fair here, though. Being able to vaporize a planet (which technically isn't the correct term because vaporization implies that it's turned into a vapor -- a gaseous form -- while they're really just blowing them to smithereens) will not necessarily save you from a character that doesn't rely on the usual "hit things really hard" method of fighting. For example, offensive psychics and characters who can manipulate matter are good examples of types that would fare well against Dragon Ball characters... provided they can get a hit in.

The issue lies in the fact that Vegeta in particular is more the type to shoot first and ask questions later (though Goku would probably draw the fight out long enough to get a grip on his opponent's level of strength and look for a good fight in it, putting him at greater risk), so you'd probably need a character who can take a solid hit from Vegeta, which is easier said than done, especially because of his speed. There are definitely characters who can do that, but I honestly just think that Naruto and the Sauce would get manhandled in short order. Afterward, Goku would whine about how he didn't even get to fight them. Unless I'm missing some clause about the nature of their powers or something. I didn't stick late game for Naruto and dropped it pretty early into its existence.

There are ways that both of them can block incredibly powerful attacks, but I'm not even 100% confident that they can handle an attack from Raditz, let alone Vegeta or Goku. Most of their abilities would have them dodge the attack instead. I think Vegeta is arrogant enough to fall for a substitution, and right after it will be their opportunity to get in a hit, and they have to make it count because they won't get another one.

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« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2015, 02:19:15 AM »

    Offline Nia

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There are ways that both of them can block incredibly powerful attacks, but I'm not even 100% confident that they can handle an attack from Raditz, let alone Vegeta or Goku. Most of their abilities would have them dodge the attack instead. I think Vegeta is arrogant enough to fall for a substitution, and right after it will be their opportunity to get in a hit, and they have to make it count because they won't get another one.

Substitution, you say...?



Also, I just wanna remind everyone what happened the last time Goku fought a ninja (less because of the discussion, and more because it was a hilarious battle).


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

Who do you think would win?
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2015, 03:13:40 AM »

    Offline Tomlanji

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Roshi blew up the moon.

So yeah Naruto and Sasuke can't handle Goku or Vegeta.

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« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2015, 01:52:28 AM »

    Offline Kiyza

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There are ways that both of them can block incredibly powerful attacks, but I'm not even 100% confident that they can handle an attack from Raditz, let alone Vegeta or Goku. Most of their abilities would have them dodge the attack instead. I think Vegeta is arrogant enough to fall for a substitution, and right after it will be their opportunity to get in a hit, and they have to make it count because they won't get another one.

With abilities that block certain attacks, I always think the best rule of thumb for these inter-series debates is to assume that its upper limit is what we've actually seen in the series, or perhaps something a bit higher depending on how the ability is presented.

For example, if a character can easily absorb energy attacks, but has only been seen to absorb ones that can, say, blast a small building to bits, there's no reason to assume that they'd be able to take the force of a hydrogen bomb or some fictional equivalent. (I know nuclear weapons are a horrible example because you have to deal with the heat and radiation as well, but it's not like we have real-world "energy weapons" for comparison) Likewise, it would be pretty ludicrous to assume that a character who take a nuclear weapon to the face through a mechanism like that would be able to, I dunno, absorb the energy from the giant laser on the Death Star.

That last example is the sort of stuff we're talking about here. There are a lot of degrees of magnitude between the physical attacks of the two series. The only viable way to deal with someone like Vegeta (who's not especially prone to dragging out fights, unlike Goku) when you're at a substantial disadvantage physically is to take advantage of the fact that he's a moron and can be presumed to have minimal resistance against abilities that don't rely on brute force. I mean, we know he has some resistance against mind control, which might extend to psychic abilities, but to say that he's immune to all of those types of attacks would just be a similar situation to the above example, especially when there are characters that have done some impressive things with those types of powers or operate on a system where it's effectively impossible to even use a saving throw.

Of course, I still find it unlikely the Naruto or the Sauce would be able to defeat Vegeta with a single hit, and if they do that, there's always Goku, who might decide to get serious if a comrade goes down.


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« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2015, 02:06:27 AM »

    Offline Shyruni

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With abilities that block certain attacks, I always think the best rule of thumb for these inter-series debates is to assume that its upper limit is what we've actually seen in the series, or perhaps something a bit higher depending on how the ability is presented.

For example, if a character can easily absorb energy attacks, but has only been seen to absorb ones that can, say, blast a small building to bits, there's no reason to assume that they'd be able to take the force of a hydrogen bomb or some fictional equivalent. (I know nuclear weapons are a horrible example because you have to deal with the heat and radiation as well, but it's not like we have real-world "energy weapons" for comparison) Likewise, it would be pretty ludicrous to assume that a character who take a nuclear weapon to the face through a mechanism like that would be able to, I dunno, absorb the energy from the giant laser on the Death Star.

That last example is the sort of stuff we're talking about here. There are a lot of degrees of magnitude between the physical attacks of the two series. The only viable way to deal with someone like Vegeta (who's not especially prone to dragging out fights, unlike Goku) when you're at a substantial disadvantage physically is to take advantage of the fact that he's a moron and can be presumed to have minimal resistance against abilities that don't rely on brute force. I mean, we know he has some resistance against mind control, which might extend to psychic abilities, but to say that he's immune to all of those types of attacks would just be a similar situation to the above example, especially when there are characters that have done some impressive things with those types of powers or operate on a system where it's effectively impossible to even use a saving throw.

Of course, I still find it unlikely the Naruto or the Sauce would be able to defeat Vegeta with a single hit, and if they do that, there's always Goku, who might decide to get serious if a comrade goes down.

Out of curiosity, how would the speed of various characters compare?  Both the character of Naruto and Dragon Ball Z are really fast, but I'm not sure who would be faster.  It's been awhile since I've read Naruto, so I don't have the best mental recollection of the series.
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Who do you think would win?
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2015, 02:34:02 AM »

    Offline Nia

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Out of curiosity, how would the speed of various characters compare?  Both the character of Naruto and Dragon Ball Z are really fast, but I'm not sure who would be faster.  It's been awhile since I've read Naruto, so I don't have the best mental recollection of the series.

I don't know the maximum speed of Naruto characters, but we know that Goku and the gang can at least catch bullets (not to mention Goku's Shunkan Ido is instant).
For that matter, during his fight with Kuririn at the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai, he got moving so fast they could only hear him, but couldn't see him, and that was back when he was still a kid.

Dunno if there's anyone in Naruto that fast, though.

I guess one of them could throw a steak off a cliff though. That'd probably distract Goku for a few seconds.


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

Who do you think would win?
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2015, 02:44:01 AM »
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Due to the thread team z will win but if we compare to othere characters  in naruto  might b a match.

i'm talking about Madara Uchiha in his edo tensei mode.. He totally summoned two huge meteors like nothing to cover up a big area...
Also his god form with both rinnegan could give a match.

Also about Obito.. with his mangenkyou he is like invincible. Goku probably can't hit him nor other z fighters.

Since this is team z vs 7 = team z wins.... no point of arguing cause this is total different animes though  :D.

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« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2015, 03:05:05 AM »

    Offline Kiyza

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Out of curiosity, how would the speed of various characters compare?  Both the character of Naruto and Dragon Ball Z are really fast, but I'm not sure who would be faster.  It's been awhile since I've read Naruto, so I don't have the best mental recollection of the series.

People will probably bicker about this until the end of time because the series isn't actually internally consistent with speed. Consider the following points:

1. Muten Roshi managed to fire an attack that hit the moon in what's probably around the same amount of time. The moon is a little more than a light second away from the Earth. If the attack moved at the speed of light, it would take about two and a half seconds to actually see the end results. Since this happens in a reasonably short span of time, it would seem to imply that the attack was moving at a nearly relativistic velocity. Despite this, there's also the fact that running a 100 meter dash in a few seconds is considered impressive at this point in the series, and the best we really see is that he's able to fight Kuririn faster than the audience can see.

2. The audiences at the Tenkaichi Budokai can often see what's happening in the fight. The announcer can even articulate specific details about the fight that's occurring, at least some of the time. This would imply that characters, at least some of the time, move much more slowly than their top speeds, so they might be in the same bracket of speed when opening with an attack against characters they know nothing about.

3. Comments about Goku's teleportation imply that it would be completely impossible for Goku in the Cell arc to halfway circle the globe in the span of a few seconds. This would imply that he's well below the "lightspeed" that some fans seem to believe he's in the bracket of, at least at that point in the series.

4. Despite the above, he can also apparently cross a pretty good distance on Namek in the blink of an eye, though we have no idea how far that is and Namek is said to be a small planet in-universe, so who knows?

5. Characters are often seen taking a good while to travel from point A to point B via flight. Though this might be because of characters being more relaxed, there are points in the series where there's really no excuse for it.

6. Some people have bothered running crazy calculations that are probably a result of looking way too far into it, and there's always a wide margin of error and room for interpretation. Much like Star Wars fans attempting to determine how many joules of energy the Death Star can fire, I think that it's better to just leave this as an entertaining and amusing exercise and not put any weight on the numbers people are attempting to decipher from a series that makes a point to not put a number to anything.

7. There is essentially no way to get objective numbers when you're talking about how fast the characters are fighting anyway, which people will often contend as their "ace in the hole" when other characters are proven to be faster than however fast they think Dragon Ball characters are. Speed is extremely difficult to determine when you're not talking about distance covered.

There's probably a lot more I'm forgetting, but the take home message? Dragon Ball characters are somewhere in the ballpark of "really freaking fast", presumably much more so than a speeding bullet, but I'm skeptical of the "lightspeed" I keep seeing tossed around because of the points above. I think that the fact that there are instances where normal people can watch a fight between two characters is really telling, especially considering a lot of people act like speed is the biggest selling point in these types of fights. Fact is, a lot of characters superhuman speed won't always move at their maximum velocity, and those who have abilities like strength tacked on tend to be less reliant on it as well. The overwhelming majority of speedsters can also be caught off guard by something slower (something Dragon Ball characters are not immune to), so it's not an "I win button" in most cases like people who frequently engage in these types of arguments often assert it is.

That said, it is a significant advantage since we're talking about a character who will probably use speed to his advantage and is arguably the one most likely to shoot first. The fact that neither Naruto nor the Sauce are in a situation where they'd be likely survive a good crack to the face isn't helping them either.

Due to the thread team z will win but if we compare to othere characters  in naruto  might b a match.

i'm talking about Madara Uchiha in his edo tensei mode.. He totally summoned two huge meteors like nothing to cover up a big area...
Also his god form with both rinnegan could give a match.

Also about Obito.. with his mangenkyou he is like invincible. Goku probably can't hit him nor other z fighters.

Since this is team z vs 7 = team z wins.... no point of arguing cause this is total different animes though  :D.

Quote
Is there an anime character stronger than Madara Uchiha?

And I’m referring to Rinne Tensei Madara Uchiha with the Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan and Rinnegan doujutsus (with the rikidou paths ability) equipped with his Gunbai and control of the juubi and Gedou Mazou, a complete Susano’o, with Hashirama Senju’s DNA implanted in his chest so he can perform Mokuton kekkei genkai and yin-yang release ninjutsu as well as being extremely skilled in taijutsu and bukijutsu.

I hate to beat @Mikecw to his favorite copypasta, but it feels so good to have an opportunity to post it.


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« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2015, 08:21:47 AM »
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Chakra is more or less the same concept as Ki... something Goku and Vegeta are far more adept at using. Moreover, Genjutsu can be overcome by way of mental focus and the like. Goku in particular has been shown at being good at using his many senses.

Where you said Goku and Vegeta are far more adept at using their kind of 'Energy'. This I must say is wrong because if you recall, Goku hadn't known much really about ki until his young adult age (When Raditz arrives) Whereas Naruto and Sasuke have been training their whole lives to master. Also, the concept of Ki and Chakra are the same, but they are completely different 'energies'. Losing too much or all Chakra results in death, where as ki doesnt. That may not create any ground for me to metaphorically step on but im putting it there. Also, I'm sure Infinite Tsukiyomi would be able to hold them for a while, or hold vegeta for a while and goku for a min. Also, Naruto could just command every Tailed Beast to use a tailed beast bomb, each embedded with their beasts attributes, at goku and that would hurt him very badly...

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« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2015, 08:33:31 AM »

    Offline Shyruni

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People will probably bicker about this until the end of time because the series isn't actually internally consistent with speed. Consider the following points:

1. Muten Roshi managed to fire an attack that hit the moon in what's probably around the same amount of time. The moon is a little more than a light second away from the Earth. If the attack moved at the speed of light, it would take about two and a half seconds to actually see the end results. Since this happens in a reasonably short span of time, it would seem to imply that the attack was moving at a nearly relativistic velocity. Despite this, there's also the fact that running a 100 meter dash in a few seconds is considered impressive at this point in the series, and the best we really see is that he's able to fight Kuririn faster than the audience can see.

2. The audiences at the Tenkaichi Budokai can often see what's happening in the fight. The announcer can even articulate specific details about the fight that's occurring, at least some of the time. This would imply that characters, at least some of the time, move much more slowly than their top speeds, so they might be in the same bracket of speed when opening with an attack against characters they know nothing about.

3. Comments about Goku's teleportation imply that it would be completely impossible for Goku in the Cell arc to halfway circle the globe in the span of a few seconds. This would imply that he's well below the "lightspeed" that some fans seem to believe he's in the bracket of, at least at that point in the series.

4. Despite the above, he can also apparently cross a pretty good distance on Namek in the blink of an eye, though we have no idea how far that is and Namek is said to be a small planet in-universe, so who knows?

5. Characters are often seen taking a good while to travel from point A to point B via flight. Though this might be because of characters being more relaxed, there are points in the series where there's really no excuse for it.

6. Some people have bothered running crazy calculations that are probably a result of looking way too far into it, and there's always a wide margin of error and room for interpretation. Much like Star Wars fans attempting to determine how many joules of energy the Death Star can fire, I think that it's better to just leave this as an entertaining and amusing exercise and not put any weight on the numbers people are attempting to decipher from a series that makes a point to not put a number to anything.

7. There is essentially no way to get objective numbers when you're talking about how fast the characters are fighting anyway, which people will often contend as their "ace in the hole" when other characters are proven to be faster than however fast they think Dragon Ball characters are. Speed is extremely difficult to determine when you're not talking about distance covered.

There's probably a lot more I'm forgetting, but the take home message? Dragon Ball characters are somewhere in the ballpark of "really freaking fast", presumably much more so than a speeding bullet, but I'm skeptical of the "lightspeed" I keep seeing tossed around because of the points above. I think that the fact that there are instances where normal people can watch a fight between two characters is really telling, especially considering a lot of people act like speed is the biggest selling point in these types of fights. Fact is, a lot of characters superhuman speed won't always move at their maximum velocity, and those who have abilities like strength tacked on tend to be less reliant on it as well. The overwhelming majority of speedsters can also be caught off guard by something slower (something Dragon Ball characters are not immune to), so it's not an "I win button" in most cases like people who frequently engage in these types of arguments often assert it is.

That said, it is a significant advantage since we're talking about a character who will probably use speed to his advantage and is arguably the one most likely to shoot first. The fact that neither Naruto nor the Sauce are in a situation where they'd be likely survive a good crack to the face isn't helping them either.

I hate to beat @Mikecw to his favorite copypasta, but it feels so good to have an opportunity to post it.

Haha, believe me, I never claimed DBZ was consistent.  I'm VERY aware of the variations in speed, and there's many other variations in terms of combat as well.  I was mainly looking for the Naruto side of things.
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« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2015, 11:22:02 AM »

    Offline GogetaAR

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Um... again, Goku and Vegeta can quite literally vaporize an entire planet in their normal forms (as in, not even SSJ1). I'm pretty sure nobody in Naruto has that kind of power.
Also, Chakra is more or less the same concept as Ki... something Goku and Vegeta are far more adept at using. Moreover, Genjutsu can be overcome by way of mental focus and the like. Goku in particular has been shown at being good at using his many senses.

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