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Topic: What is fundamentally wrong with American society? [chat with umbrax]  (Read 4240 times)

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    Offline Umbrax

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I won't say what side I am on, but this is only my observations about America.

You see mass shooting almost semi-regularly. What is wrong with American- no, SOCIETY in general? Is this the consequences a supposed 'peaceful' environment we have? Is this because of our need in modern society to be politically correct, and put our wants instead of our need? Whether you're liberal or conservative everyone can agree the United States as we know it is changing fundamentally, and being more and more taken control of by our government
As this happens, what happens to people? A loss of individuality? The stress of having nobody listen to you're opinions (being utterly alone), which often is the cause of shootings nowadays?

How can the United States be so.. 'full of rights' according to hipsters but have the government take control of us? This is an observation I have made. They seem to be catering towards young people. Is this why young people in general seem so oblivious as to what is happening, good or bad from other people's points of view?

Everytime I talk about this, people say the same generic response, almost like they haven't thought for themselves. How can America be so 'creative' when all young people seem to think alike? Will we not have thinkers in the future? It scares me to think about this a little bit.

It kind of reminds me of that song by Pink Floyd, where all the children are taught to 'not have thought control' when in reality they ARE being thought controlled and believe the government can do no wrong.





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What is fundamentally wrong with American society? [chat with umbrax]
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2015, 09:13:25 AM »

    Offline Kiyza

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Alright, so I could pick apart every little aspect of what I think is wrong with society, but we'd be here a very long time, so instead, I'll just pick apart the crux of the issue you're presenting here: the homogenization of society.

You know what's causing this, don't you? It's the internet.

You see, the reason that we have so many different cultures in the world and so many different looking people and such is because of isolation of populations. When cultures open up to one another, their ideas start to be exchanged and we see aspects of one culture subsumed by another and vice-versa. The internet basically interconnects the entire world. You can play video games online with people from freaking China and hold conversations with them with minimal lag. We didn't have this level of interconnectivity until the past few decades. Millennials are growing up with this as a fact of life.

Of course, you can see a bit more diversity when you look at individual sites on the internet. For instance, 4Chan has its own sort of "culture" along with Tumblr, and those are very different. Heck, individual boards and communities on both sites have their own cultures, but ultimately, they're a part of the same interconnected, overarching one.

Since we're all a part of the same enormous machine we call the internet, we tend to learn things like our manners from the sites we frequent, and there's always going to be overlap with the sites we use too. It all loops back around to this generation all being a part of the same system, the same community. That's probably why they all seem to think alike.


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What is fundamentally wrong with American society? [chat with umbrax]
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2015, 09:18:42 AM »

    Offline Trender

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tbh I live on Europe and it was QUITE WEIRD for me when I knew that on USA you can use weapons :/

What is fundamentally wrong with American society? [chat with umbrax]
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2015, 09:21:49 AM »

    Offline Shyruni

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I won't say what side I am on, but this is only my observations about America.

You see mass shooting almost semi-regularly. What is wrong with American- no, SOCIETY in general? Is this the consequences a supposed 'peaceful' environment we have? Is this because of our need in modern society to be politically correct, and put our wants instead of our need? Whether you're liberal or conservative everyone can agree the United States as we know it is changing fundamentally, and being more and more taken control of by our government
As this happens, what happens to people? A loss of individuality? The stress of having nobody listen to you're opinions (being utterly alone), which often is the cause of shootings nowadays?

How can the United States be so.. 'full of rights' according to hipsters but have the government take control of us? This is an observation I have made. They seem to be catering towards young people. Is this why young people in general seem so oblivious as to what is happening, good or bad from other people's points of view?

Everytime I talk about this, people say the same generic response, almost like they haven't thought for themselves. How can America be so 'creative' when all young people seem to think alike? Will we not have thinkers in the future? It scares me to think about this a little bit.

It kind of reminds me of that song by Pink Floyd, where all the children are taught to 'not have thought control' when in reality they ARE being thought controlled and believe the government can do no wrong.

One thing to keep in mind is that America is a large place, and that different places have different people.  How things appear in one state might be completely different from another state.

What I would say about the part of America I live in isn't exactly that people necessarily trust the government, more they just don't care.  People in general, at least to me seem very self-centered.  This might be due to our general higher standard of living, or due to other factors of culture, but people in general here seem more focused on their own personal and financial lives than the world around them.  Modern music certainly reflects this, as well as most of the complaints you hear around here.

As for violence and stuff along that line, where I live those things happen for certain, but I wouldn't say it's particularly common.  There's "bad cities" which have a more negative reputation, but shootings and stuff aren't very common around me, so I wouldn't say all of America has that issue.  Then again, I don't exactly have much to compare it to, so maybe it's worse.

What I don't understand is the idea where "the government can do no wrong", because where I am things are TOTALLY different.  The government is not only mocked openly, but rather commonly, people around here treat it like a joke.  Most people think the government is just getting worse and worse, and making dumber and dumber decisions.  That being said, as previously mentioned, despite this people don't seem to care.  They'll openly mock the government, talk about how stupid a decision was made, but most of them would never try to change the government for the better.



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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2015, 09:38:58 AM »

    Offline Silencer

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While I have no opinion on the fundamental reasons why American society and, it seems, the entire globe's society is so out of control and seemingly has no order, I can say that I'm not surprised that this is happening. In fact, I know that it's only going to get worse.

Nobody else should be surprised either. We're told quite clearly by the Bible that this would happen. Written 3500 years ago, it foretold all of this. It even predicted the American world power! Daniel 2:41-43 describes America exactly as it is today! You can see this in any Bible and they all have the same message.

This is what mine says. "And just as you saw the feet and the toes (talking about the statue in the dream of King Nebuchadnezzar interpreted by Daniel) to be partly of clay of a potter and partly of iron, the kingdom will be divided, but some of the hardness of the iron will be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with soft clay. And the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom will be partly strong and partly fragile (America's military is strong but it's society is weak and fragile, it has it's weaknesses). Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people (America is full of different ethnicities and it is called "the melting pot" because of it); but they will not stick together, one to the other, just as iron does not mix with clay (the black community and the white community clash as can be seen in excess right now)."

I think the evidence is irrefutable that we're living in the kingdom described here. I don't know what's wrong with American society, but I already knew that it was going to happen.

The Bible says what will happen next too, if you investigate. It's just as clear as above. So when it happens, I still won't be surprised. I'm just waiting for it.

What is fundamentally wrong with American society? [chat with umbrax]
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2015, 09:56:40 AM »

    Offline Umbrax

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While I have no opinion on the fundamental reasons why American society and, it seems, the entire globe's society is so out of control and seemingly has no order, I can say that I'm not surprised that this is happening. In fact, I know that it's only going to get worse.

Nobody else should be surprised either. We're told quite clearly by the Bible that this would happen. Written 3500 years ago, it foretold all of this. It even predicted the American world power! Daniel 2:41-43 describes America exactly as it is today! You can see this in any Bible and they all have the same message.

This is what mine says. "And just as you saw the feet and the toes (talking about the statue in the dream of King Nebuchadnezzar interpreted by Daniel) to be partly of clay of a potter and partly of iron, the kingdom will be divided, but some of the hardness of the iron will be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with soft clay. And the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom will be partly strong and partly fragile (America's military is strong but it's society is weak and fragile, it has it's weaknesses). Just as you saw iron mixed with soft clay, they will be mixed with the people (America is full of different ethnicities and it is called "the melting pot" because of it); but they will not stick together, one to the other, just as iron does not mix with clay (the black community and the white community clash as can be seen in excess right now)."

I think the evidence is irrefutable that we're living in the kingdom described here. I don't know what's wrong with American society, but I already knew that it was going to happen.

The Bible says what will happen next too, if you investigate. It's just as clear as above. So when it happens, I still won't be surprised. I'm just waiting for it.

Of course I knew this was going to happen. This all leads back to the millennials not thinking for themselves.
@Kiyza is it a good thing that everyone thinks the same? It's all just a culture of self-want now.

I'll share a personal thing. I saw Crane's 'why is being a virgin a bad thing?', and I wanted to share the first time I had sex. I really think encouraging this type of 'do whatever' isn't a good, because after that, I really felt I objectified women for their looks and not for what they are when I was a teen.
I think conforming to this self-want culture isn't particularly good, and no, not for religious reasons. It makes all lazy and all the same, while bigger people with more money take advantage of us while we aren't looking, or in this case, ever paying attention.

My point is, this type of society just ends in a loop. For example, Extreme Feminism encourages more rape, leads men to be more insecure thus leading to the rape. Extreme Feminism stems from men dominating society for a long time. When people get what they want, they tend to take it to the extreme. For all this 'racial equality', people sure tend to be on edge and correcting every little thing, like they are insecure them-self, no?



 




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What is fundamentally wrong with American society? [chat with umbrax]
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2015, 10:44:40 AM »

    Offline Kiyza

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tbh I live on Europe and it was QUITE WEIRD for me when I knew that on USA you can use weapons :/

Well, that's because of a cultural divide. Guns are a fundamental aspect of American society because we were basically founded on the ideal that people should be able to defend themselves, not rely on the government step in for us to do it. This is a country that was originally more like a republic, and states still have some measure of autonomy so they're not a homogeneous mass. It's very different from Europe in that respect, where the individual countries are small and self-sustaining, though the United Nations seems to be trying to take the same role as the federal United States government from what I've seen.

What I don't understand is the idea where "the government can do no wrong", because where I am things are TOTALLY different.  The government is not only mocked openly, but rather commonly, people around here treat it like a joke.  Most people think the government is just getting worse and worse, and making dumber and dumber decisions.  That being said, as previously mentioned, despite this people don't seem to care.  They'll openly mock the government, talk about how stupid a decision was made, but most of them would never try to change the government for the better.

I think that very few Americans take the government 100% seriously. We're also a nation guaranteed the right to mock and criticize our government openly, so we take full advantage of it.

Part of the reason that no one is attempting to change the government for the better is the fact that there's an enormous barrier for entry into politics, and it's made of money and connections. It's part of the reason that we have political dynasties like the Bushes, the Kennedys, and the Clintons -- because they're already established in the political sphere. It's also the reason why someone like Donald Trump can get into it with no problems. He has money to advertise his political campaign. It's basically impossible for the average person to get into politics because of those factors.

On top of that, making a difference in politics? Nigh impossible because the democratic system of government we've established moves at a snail's pace. Even if you have a seat as the President, the real power that's making the bills that mostly won't be passed is in the House and the Senate, and individuals are only a drop of water in a bucket in that sphere.

Of course I knew this was going to happen. This all leads back to the millennials not thinking for themselves.
@Kiyza is it a good thing that everyone thinks the same? It's all just a culture of self-want now.

I'll share a personal thing. I saw Crane's 'why is being a virgin a bad thing?', and I wanted to share the first time I had sex. I really think encouraging this type of 'do whatever' isn't a good, because after that, I really felt I objectified women for their looks and not for what they are when I was a teen.
I think conforming to this self-want culture isn't particularly good, and no, not for religious reasons. It makes all lazy and all the same, while bigger people with more money take advantage of us while we aren't looking, or in this case, ever paying attention.

My point is, this type of society just ends in a loop. For example, Extreme Feminism encourages more rape, leads men to be more insecure thus leading to the rape. Extreme Feminism stems from men dominating society for a long time. When people get what they want, they tend to take it to the extreme. For all this 'racial equality', people sure tend to be on edge and correcting every little thing, like they are insecure them-self, no?

I never said it was a good thing. You should know -- anyone who knows me should know, really -- that I hate what our society is becoming. It's stupid. I hate the need to push this measure of political correctness that invades our society. In many ways, I feel it dehumanizes people who are minorities, because it emphasizes what they are over who they are. Not to mention, it seems largely fueled by enormous amounts of white guilt. Modern "feminism" is just female supremacism dolled up in makeup to make it seem "progressive". They don't realize that the reason there's a "pay gap" between men and women has nothing to do with how much men and women are paid for the same amount of work, but rather, the fact that women aren't achieving to the extent that men are, taking on full-time, high-paying jobs. Feminists are asking to be coddled, portraying women -- painting me -- as weak, defenseless, and in need of help from an outside world. I can't stand for that.

And on the notion of viewing women as sexual objects. I'm gonna let you in on a secret: women do that too, and we do it in spades. The kind of pornography we enjoy (largely written forms of it we sanitize as "erotica") is sold in bookstores for God's sake. You don't see Playboy in Barnes & Noble, do you? We just also enjoy an emotional aspect to our sexualization of men, imagining someone who's ideal mentally as well as physically. There's nothing wrong with a horny teenager especially looking for sexual release in the bodies of women, because most people do need a measure and manner of release.


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What is fundamentally wrong with American society? [chat with umbrax]
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2015, 11:10:05 AM »

    Offline Shyruni

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I never said it was a good thing. You should know -- anyone who knows me should know, really -- that I hate what our society is becoming. It's stupid. I hate the need to push this measure of political correctness that invades our society. In many ways, I feel it dehumanizes people who are minorities, because it emphasizes what they are over who they are. Not to mention, it seems largely fueled by enormous amounts of white guilt. Modern "feminism" is just female supremacism dolled up in makeup to make it seem "progressive". They don't realize that the reason there's a "pay gap" between men and women has nothing to do with how much men and women are paid for the same amount of work, but rather, the fact that women aren't achieving to the extent that men are, taking on full-time, high-paying jobs. Feminists are asking to be coddled, portraying women -- painting me -- as weak, defenseless, and in need of help from an outside world. I can't stand for that.

And on the notion of viewing women as sexual objects. I'm gonna let you in on a secret: women do that too, and we do it in spades. The kind of pornography we enjoy (largely written forms of it we sanitize as "erotica") is sold in bookstores for God's sake. You don't see Playboy in Barnes & Noble, do you? We just also enjoy an emotional aspect to our sexualization of men, imagining someone who's ideal mentally as well as physically. There's nothing wrong with a horny teenager especially looking for sexual release in the bodies of women, because most people do need a measure and manner of release.

Not to get off-topic, but you have no idea how glad I am to hear this perspective.  While I agree women should be not be treated as inferior beings, I've always felt there was something wrong with the whole execution of feminism and could never put my finger on it.  And being a male made it difficult because I would question whether or not my opinion of the matter was affected by my gender, so it's nice to hear a counter-perspective from the feminist's target demographic.
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What is fundamentally wrong with American society? [chat with umbrax]
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2015, 11:23:47 AM »

    Offline Mikecw.

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These questions don't even deserve answers. Faulty premises. Group think isn't exclusive to America. Most problems can be blamed on the left.

>How can America be so 'creative' when all young people seem to think alike?
Citation needed

>Whether you're liberal or conservative everyone can agree the United States as we know it is changing fundamentally, and being more and more taken control of by our government
You say it's changing, but aren't being specific at all.

>The stress of having nobody listen to you're opinions (being utterly alone), which often is the cause of shootings nowadays?


What is fundamentally wrong with American society? [chat with umbrax]
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2015, 12:51:51 PM »

    Offline Umbrax

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These questions don't even deserve answers. Faulty premises. Group think isn't exclusive to America. Most problems can be blamed on the left.

>How can America be so 'creative' when all young people seem to think alike?
Citation needed

>Whether you're liberal or conservative everyone can agree the United States as we know it is changing fundamentally, and being more and more taken control of by our government
You say it's changing, but aren't being specific at all.

>The stress of having nobody listen to you're opinions (being utterly alone), which often is the cause of shootings nowadays?



Why do I need a citation, when we specifically have a term for the young adults this generation? Also I don't think you understood my statement.




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« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2015, 01:04:21 PM »

    Offline Mikecw.

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Why do I need a citation, when we specifically have a term for the young adults this generation? Also I don't think you understood my statement.
>Why do I need a citation for my premise that's based on assumptions

Until you provide adequate arguing material, I'm just going to post murica pics. Also, what term are you talking about?


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« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2015, 03:03:27 PM »

    Offline Tofu

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Woah, this is definitively the kind of topic I'd love to read, analyze, and comment about with a wall of text since I usually think about this while walking on the street going to college.

Sadly, I'm way too tired right now to think and write too much so I'll pass till the next time I find this thread around. ;D
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« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2015, 03:30:17 PM »

    Offline Bardock

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>Why do I need a citation for my premise that's based on assumptions

Until you provide adequate arguing material, I'm just going to post murica pics. Also, what term are you talking about?


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What is fundamentally wrong with American society? [chat with umbrax]
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2015, 05:39:39 PM »

    Offline Mikecw.

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But the smokes give the color and order of the dutch flag :/
Can't hear you over all this freedom


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« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2015, 09:44:31 PM »

    Offline Roxas

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Seems like a question for actual American people because you'll get a lot of bias either way,but at least Americans know what they are talking about more or less.

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« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2015, 10:18:15 PM »

    Offline Iceman

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Well yeah, "You need to think, do things that government wants you to think or do".
This is everywhere mate, in every country in world.

World is just fucked up haha.
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« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2015, 10:41:27 PM »

    Offline Roxas

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Now to my opinion, I have not read anyone ele's post yet, so Im sure Kiyza and some others made some good points I may agree or disagree with.
But here is my take, I think whats wrong with America  has to do with a bit of everything, the whats wrong with the government, whats wrong with the people, and whats wrong with the WORLD. Because take in mind, compared to alot of other places, America is still one of the best places to live. Especially if you are a white male, I may touch up on that later.

One of the big things I see is ignorance of the peoples, and social media plays a big part of it. I wont nessecarily call these people stupid, but while at one time you may have had to keep those opinions to yourself, now they can be shared and encouraged by posting stuff on facebook or something  to a group that also has the same views. You dont know how many blatantly racist people I see on Facebook , it sort of amazes me on how people could be that way. But its not just racist people, its "dumb" people in general. There was a picture post I saw, and it said what would be the first thing you would do as president. Now aside from the hundred of Kill Obama or do someting to Obama  posts. There was alot of stuff ike "Fire all of Obama's Cabinet members" or bomb X country.  Now if these people (ADULTS) have taking any sort of Government class. Youd know that once you become the President you hire your own cabinet anyway, or youd know you dont have the power to do alot of the shit you think you could do. They call Obama a traitor but they have no idea that alot of their comments could be considered treason themzelves. These people have such a lack of real knowledge that they blame the president for all their problems. There are reasons not to hate Obama , but not because hes is an antichrist terrorist trying to destroy America. These people dont realize that their mayor or govenor have more contrl over their everyday lives that the president does. And from things Ive heard from the people around me , not as many people like to vote for those guys.(Meaning dont take it for fact, really this whole thing is subjective) Another thing, is people seem to have lost their respect... there used to be a time when it didnt matter if you liked the president or not, you still respect them, and that how I feel personally. Because at the end of the day he is your country's representative and how does it look on the outside to other countries when his own people act the way they do. One thing I can respect about him is his ability to take alot of the harsh things said. Though all presidents get talked negatively about in some way or form I feel like this guy has it the worst, they talk about his kids and his wife so much its ridiculous.

As you can see with this whole Donald Trump stuff going around , presidency is turing into a freaking American Idol. Imagine if he was a woman, I doubt hed make it this far. Hed rather talk about his hair and Heidi Klum than actual issues, at least from what ive seen of him . Bringing me to another point. MEDIA . A reason there is stuff people dont think about and dont see is because it has to deal with what the media wants them to see. Race issues have always been a problem... but why now has it gotten this big? Because they show it in the media alot now. Not to mention, with everyone trying to cover the story at once, there are bound to be mistakes in the information gathered. Now if you were thinking critically about this you would notice its not really a bad thing or a good thing, it can be used both ways. It does bring awareness to the issue, but it also causes people to overreact, and get mad, and accuse.

There is really a whole lot of stuff to talk about. I think Ill skip over racism for now though and issues like that for now.

But you mention our generation, which is rising up to take control. Now on one side, you have the still ignorant ,or people who copy views from their family, and have the same thinking. On the other side you have you have the accepting, compassionate side that wants to make a change or statment and tey pay attention to politics , or issues that happen in the world. I know alot of the "smarter" people who I knew are really into this Bernie Sanders guy, I dont know what my opinion is of him yet but ive heard some great stuff and alot of my generation seems to like this guy. I want to do some more personal research on him myself but thats off topic. Hence there are good things and bad things about this generation, but I think we may be better off than out predesessors if we can get all our shit together. Our generation is looked at as antisocial but we are very social, we are connected to the world from our computers , hell even our phones!! They shouldnt even be called phones anymore with the amount of other things we use them for. Thats the reason they try to cater to us, we are next, they want to encourage us to vote, we have that power, the old people are gonna die off and we'll be the next in line . Im guilty of not paying the most attention to politics but its important that we do, you cant complain about something if you didnt vote. Thats what my father told me and hes right.

Now with all this , plus the shootings and things, you may think America is fucked up or somthing. But it isnt, just as media controls what we see it controls what other countries see. I live my life without any of that stuff happening to me. Theres not a bunch of hate being tossed around, not any (harmful) racism. Basically, its full of peace and thats why it sort of good to know what it happening around you becuase if there was no news and I had to go off of my own experiences. There is no problems, would be what I would say.

Im gonna cut this short and I may come back to it later, and Ill read some of the other posts and see if they should be responded to.





Well yeah, "You need to think, do things that government wants you to think or do".
This is everywhere mate, in every country in world.

World is just fucked up haha.
Iceman is right . I was gonna say this myself, probably in diffrent words but this sums it up.

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What is fundamentally wrong with American society? [chat with umbrax]
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2015, 10:42:38 PM »

    Offline Grai_M

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As a Murican (and passive lurker, yaaaaay) I believe these questions you ask are quite objective and somewhat bias. I cant say much about the shooting frequency/single mindedness of other countries, but in America its less that these things are big and powerful, its more that they are over exaggerated in news.

First off, shootings depend on the population. I have lived in america for 13 years and have not once heard a gunshot. However if you go to places like Chicago, you can see pretty screwed up shit. It all depends on where in the US you live. Also, news outlets often like to focus on shootings as if they were within close proximity of each other, when in reality these things happened weeks apart, in different counties.

Second off, I think you are beginning to forget how the teenage mind develops. The prefrontal cortex, (the controlroom of your brain) and many parts of your brain that control thought are about as developed as they were when you were 8 until you are about 21. Teens such as myself are not right in le noggin. We think we are high and mighty when really we are nothing. Our teens have similar ideas? Suuuuure. It depends on location most of all, actually. In southern states, a lot of people are racist still. In the north, we happily support things like gay marriage, race, and all around equality. Opinions change based on the environment you are subject to. You say that we have similar minds, and that's precisely the point. A lot of us DO have similar ideas and that's just how its been since before Washington. (Also, if we had well divided ideals, why were we able to simply split the country in have during the civil war? :L)

Anyways, that's my two cents. I just think people are too quick to jump on the "the world has went to shit!" bandwagon. I think its going to happen soon (probably a lot sooner if Trump gets elected) but not within my kids lifetimes.

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« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2015, 11:18:30 PM »

    Offline Roxas

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Here are some facebook posts and pictures that I have seen while scrolling through, as I dont really participate, I usually scroll through and see whats going on then forget about it.

http://prntscr.com/8aksy0

http://prntscr.com/8aktnv
^To me this is stupid because the guy who killed them, killed himself. Unlike the other  examples this person used.

http://prntscr.com/8aku5a
^Right because he would rather discuss his own hair and talk about women.
http://prntscr.com/8akuwi
Define everyone hearing about it and making a statement about it as not caring.

http://prntscr.com/8akvbu
^ A debatable topic that alot of people dont understand.
http://prntscr.com/8akvws
^No explanation needed.

http://prntscr.com/8akwnq
http://prntscr.com/8akwzl

http://prntscr.com/8akxo8
^Dont get me started on this.......

http://prntscr.com/8akxyu
^People apprently dont know that Reagan used to be an actor before being president.
http://prntscr.com/8akyll
http://prntscr.com/8akyq1
http://prntscr.com/8akz4f
http://prntscr.com/8akzk7
http://prntscr.com/8al0fc
http://prntscr.com/8al1sh
This is all within the same month. I have not even gotten to the worse stuff yet, but its annoying to do so Im done lol.

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What is fundamentally wrong with American society? [chat with umbrax]
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2015, 12:03:38 AM »

    Offline Umbrax

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As a Murican (and passive lurker, yaaaaay) I believe these questions you ask are quite objective and somewhat bias. I cant say much about the shooting frequency/single mindedness of other countries, but in America its less that these things are big and powerful, its more that they are over exaggerated in news.

First off, shootings depend on the population. I have lived in america for 13 years and have not once heard a gunshot. However if you go to places like Chicago, you can see pretty screwed up shit. It all depends on where in the US you live. Also, news outlets often like to focus on shootings as if they were within close proximity of each other, when in reality these things happened weeks apart, in different counties.

Second off, I think you are beginning to forget how the teenage mind develops. The prefrontal cortex, (the controlroom of your brain) and many parts of your brain that control thought are about as developed as they were when you were 8 until you are about 21. Teens such as myself are not right in le noggin. We think we are high and mighty when really we are nothing. Our teens have similar ideas? Suuuuure. It depends on location most of all, actually. In southern states, a lot of people are racist still. In the north, we happily support things like gay marriage, race, and all around equality. Opinions change based on the environment you are subject to. You say that we have similar minds, and that's precisely the point. A lot of us DO have similar ideas and that's just how its been since before Washington. (Also, if we had well divided ideals, why were we able to simply split the country in have during the civil war? :L)

Anyways, that's my two cents. I just think people are too quick to jump on the "the world has went to shit!" bandwagon. I think its going to happen soon (probably a lot sooner if Trump gets elected) but not within my kids lifetimes.

As a southern, I can tell you that that racism is very small and hard to come by, and most people support gay marriage down here. It's not as bad as you'd think. You also seem 'bias' towards the other side yourself.
I am saying if everyone thought the same way, that isn't good.

@Roxas on the topic of Obama, educated people are saying his decisions are just stupid in general. They do not seem to work well with the Constitution, and that is why a lot of people are shitting their pants.
I think my problem is that the government seem to embrace ignorance for the people, as you said with the media. They never seem to tell us what actual goes on, but it is also the people's fault as well. We have gotten to a point where people DON'T want to research and feel comfortable what with other people tell them.

I think as humans we go with what makes us feel safe. People seem to think this is one-sided in America, when in-fact Muslims in the Middle-East are taught that all westerners are evil and obviously have no clue what a good chunk of westerners are actually like.

I think this leads me to my point that America IS the most comfortable country money wise, which means we apparently means we can do whatever we want to.




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« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2015, 12:47:36 AM »

    Offline Roxas

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Like I said there are reasons to not like Obama . My Dad did not like Obama , but that is not the point .
And what president hasn't overstepped their boundaries , it's nothing new and will likely happen again. I am not encouraging or praising this though.

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What is fundamentally wrong with American society? [chat with umbrax]
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2015, 12:57:21 AM »

    Offline Kiyza

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Especially if you are a white male, I may touch up on that later.

In a sentence, you just summarized what I think is one of the biggest problems with America today -- the fact that people constantly put the blame for their mistakes, their shortcomings on white men. It's a scapegoating tactic. It's not the white man's fault that there are less women in the sciences than men, it's women's faults. It's not the white man's fault that black people are more likely to live in poverty if black people are substantially less likely to even complete a high school education, which is completely free.

White men are basically trained, infected with guilt over who they are when they shouldn't have that shame. Schools practically beat it into you that you're a white person and should have humility because of that. I ignored this because I was raised to respect my heritage and think of myself as part of a mass of white people. I come from a family of poor immigrants who are going to have the same problem climbing to the top as any other person in our financial situation, and you know what? At least some of us managed to make a good living here in America.

I pity anyone born a white man who buys into this propaganda, and I pity anyone who points the finger at white men, because you know what's ironic about it? It's racist and sexist.

One of the big things I see is ignorance of the peoples, and social media plays a big part of it. I wont nessecarily call these people stupid, but while at one time you may have had to keep those opinions to yourself, now they can be shared and encouraged by posting stuff on facebook or something  to a group that also has the same views. You dont know how many blatantly racist people I see on Facebook , it sort of amazes me on how people could be that way. But its not just racist people, its "dumb" people in general. There was a picture post I saw, and it said what would be the first thing you would do as president. Now aside from the hundred of Kill Obama or do someting to Obama  posts. There was alot of stuff ike "Fire all of Obama's Cabinet members" or bomb X country.  Now if these people (ADULTS) have taking any sort of Government class. Youd know that once you become the President you hire your own cabinet anyway, or youd know you dont have the power to do alot of the shit you think you could do. They call Obama a traitor but they have no idea that alot of their comments could be considered treason themzelves. These people have such a lack of real knowledge that they blame the president for all their problems. There are reasons not to hate Obama , but not because hes is an antichrist terrorist trying to destroy America. These people dont realize that their mayor or govenor have more contrl over their everyday lives that the president does. And from things Ive heard from the people around me , not as many people like to vote for those guys.(Meaning dont take it for fact, really this whole thing is subjective) Another thing, is people seem to have lost their respect... there used to be a time when it didnt matter if you liked the president or not, you still respect them, and that how I feel personally. Because at the end of the day he is your country's representative and how does it look on the outside to other countries when his own people act the way they do. One thing I can respect about him is his ability to take alot of the harsh things said. Though all presidents get talked negatively about in some way or form I feel like this guy has it the worst, they talk about his kids and his wife so much its ridiculous.

Holy shit. Are you actually saying that hating Obama is "blatantly racist"? Is that the most racist thing you've seen said on Facebook? I don't like Obama because he's a false prophet. He promised me Hope, he promised me Change, and what has he actually given me? Well, my mother, a state employee, keeps getting paycuts because Washington can't balance the budget, putting us in even a worse financial situation than before. He never pulled the troops out of foreign nations like he said and we're still fighting a war, and I have friends who have been caught up in this crazy war. Cut off the head of Osama Bin Laden and ISIS grows in its place. The only thing I can honestly say he's done for me individually is that he's made it possible for me to marry my girlfriend in any of the fifty states, and I already had the right to do that in my own state without him.

People don't hate Obama because he's black, they hate him because he promised to do something for America and never did. If they're not even talking about his race (which I'll assume because you haven't mentioned it), then I think you're projecting what you want people to think onto others. The President of the United States should not be able to pull the race card and magically be free of all criticisms.

As you can see with this whole Donald Trump stuff going around , presidency is turing into a freaking American Idol. Imagine if he was a woman, I doubt hed make it this far. Hed rather talk about his hair and Heidi Klum than actual issues, at least from what ive seen of him . Bringing me to another point. MEDIA . A reason there is stuff people dont think about and dont see is because it has to deal with what the media wants them to see. Race issues have always been a problem... but why now has it gotten this big? Because they show it in the media alot now. Not to mention, with everyone trying to cover the story at once, there are bound to be mistakes in the information gathered. Now if you were thinking critically about this you would notice its not really a bad thing or a good thing, it can be used both ways. It does bring awareness to the issue, but it also causes people to overreact, and get mad, and accuse.

If Donald Trump was a woman, he'd probably make it even further because people are often concerned about what someone is rather than who they are. Hilary Clinton is on the fast track to being the Democratic presidential candidate, so it's not like being a woman is holding her back. Funny thing is, being a woman doesn't prevent you from being a part of those advantageous political dynasties I mentioned before, and those dynasties can also be established through hard work and money.

But you mention our generation, which is rising up to take control. Now on one side, you have the still ignorant ,or people who copy views from their family, and have the same thinking. On the other side you have you have the accepting, compassionate side that wants to make a change or statment and tey pay attention to politics , or issues that happen in the world. I know alot of the "smarter" people who I knew are really into this Bernie Sanders guy, I dont know what my opinion is of him yet but ive heard some great stuff and alot of my generation seems to like this guy. I want to do some more personal research on him myself but thats off topic. Hence there are good things and bad things about this generation, but I think we may be better off than out predesessors if we can get all our shit together. Our generation is looked at as antisocial but we are very social, we are connected to the world from our computers , hell even our phones!! They shouldnt even be called phones anymore with the amount of other things we use them for. Thats the reason they try to cater to us, we are next, they want to encourage us to vote, we have that power, the old people are gonna die off and we'll be the next in line . Im guilty of not paying the most attention to politics but its important that we do, you cant complain about something if you didnt vote. Thats what my father told me and hes right.

People who copy views from their family are just as ignorant as people who copy their opinions through exchange of information with their peers and buy into government propaganda. If you're following the leader instead of looking at information objectively and deciding for yourself who's right and who's wrong, then you are the problem.

And having our phones and being interconnected is not necessarily a good thing. I've noticed lately that I'm addicted to my phone and really need to put it down. I was even using it on and off during a conversation with the professor I'm doing research under when I was in a three-way conversation with a colleague and they were going off on a conversation I probably should have been participating in. Yes, it connects us to other people more than ever, but it can also make us forget the people who are right in front of us. That's why older folks hate it.

Now with all this , plus the shootings and things, you may think America is fucked up or somthing. But it isnt, just as media controls what we see it controls what other countries see. I live my life without any of that stuff happening to me. Theres not a bunch of hate being tossed around, not any (harmful) racism. Basically, its full of peace and thats why it sort of good to know what it happening around you becuase if there was no news and I had to go off of my own experiences. There is no problems, would be what I would say.

If I can just give my closing thoughts here, Roxas has a point. This is the most peaceful time in recorded history. This is the most accepting time in recorded history. There's less violence and less prejudice now than there's ever been before, and that's a good thing. I don't think either of those factors are something I'm especially worried about. What I think we should all be concerned with is our disappearing personal freedoms and the government and media attempting to manipulate us through subtle propaganda. That and we should be aware of why Millennials -- and every other generation -- behave the way they do.

Second off, I think you are beginning to forget how the teenage mind develops. The prefrontal cortex, (the controlroom of your brain) and many parts of your brain that control thought are about as developed as they were when you were 8 until you are about 21. Teens such as myself are not right in le noggin.

Alright, I gotta mention this because of the scientific inaccuracies. The human prefrontal cortex develops gradually over time, and it doesn't fully develop until you're around 25, not 21. It gradually becomes more developed rather than there just being a huge difference later in life.

Anyways, that's my two cents. I just think people are too quick to jump on the "the world has went to shit!" bandwagon. I think its going to happen soon (probably a lot sooner if Trump gets elected) but not within my kids lifetimes.

The President doesn't have as much power as most people are under the impression he does, so I doubt we're going to hell in a handbasket regardless of who gets elected. I'd be more worried about the leaders of foreign regimes where a single person can wield much more power in the government than America.

And @Shyruni, do not let people silence you because you're a white man. This is the exact thing these types of people claim white men are doing to women and minorities, and when they act like your voice, your opinion doesn't matter, it's not only a double standard, but also racist and sexist. It's not right that I should be able to get a free pass on my social commentary because I'm a woman, and I don't want people to think of me as a woman first and a person with an opinion second. I will not hide behind my boobs when I'm criticized and I won't let other women do it either.


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What is fundamentally wrong with American society? [chat with umbrax]
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2015, 05:06:41 AM »

    Offline Mikecw.

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Now to my opinion, I have not read anyone ele's post yet, so Im sure Kiyza and some others made some good points I may agree or disagree with.
But here is my take, I think whats wrong with America  has to do with a bit of everything, the whats wrong with the government, whats wrong with the people, and whats wrong with the WORLD. Because take in mind, compared to alot of other places, America is still one of the best places to live. Especially if you are a white male, I may touch up on that later.

One of the big things I see is ignorance of the peoples, and social media plays a big part of it. I wont nessecarily call these people stupid, but while at one time you may have had to keep those opinions to yourself, now they can be shared and encouraged by posting stuff on facebook or something  to a group that also has the same views. You dont know how many blatantly racist people I see on Facebook , it sort of amazes me on how people could be that way. But its not just racist people, its "dumb" people in general. There was a picture post I saw, and it said what would be the first thing you would do as president. Now aside from the hundred of Kill Obama or do someting to Obama  posts. There was alot of stuff ike "Fire all of Obama's Cabinet members" or bomb X country.  Now if these people (ADULTS) have taking any sort of Government class. Youd know that once you become the President you hire your own cabinet anyway, or youd know you dont have the power to do alot of the shit you think you could do. They call Obama a traitor but they have no idea that alot of their comments could be considered treason themzelves. These people have such a lack of real knowledge that they blame the president for all their problems. There are reasons not to hate Obama , but not because hes is an antichrist terrorist trying to destroy America. These people dont realize that their mayor or govenor have more contrl over their everyday lives that the president does. And from things Ive heard from the people around me , not as many people like to vote for those guys.(Meaning dont take it for fact, really this whole thing is subjective) Another thing, is people seem to have lost their respect... there used to be a time when it didnt matter if you liked the president or not, you still respect them, and that how I feel personally. Because at the end of the day he is your country's representative and how does it look on the outside to other countries when his own people act the way they do. One thing I can respect about him is his ability to take alot of the harsh things said. Though all presidents get talked negatively about in some way or form I feel like this guy has it the worst, they talk about his kids and his wife so much its ridiculous.

As you can see with this whole Donald Trump stuff going around , presidency is turing into a freaking American Idol. Imagine if he was a woman, I doubt hed make it this far. Hed rather talk about his hair and Heidi Klum than actual issues, at least from what ive seen of him . Bringing me to another point. MEDIA . A reason there is stuff people dont think about and dont see is because it has to deal with what the media wants them to see. Race issues have always been a problem... but why now has it gotten this big? Because they show it in the media alot now. Not to mention, with everyone trying to cover the story at once, there are bound to be mistakes in the information gathered. Now if you were thinking critically about this you would notice its not really a bad thing or a good thing, it can be used both ways. It does bring awareness to the issue, but it also causes people to overreact, and get mad, and accuse.
You're an idiot. Obama is a horrible president. It's not treason to talk shit about the president or any politician. The only reason he was elected was because he's black. Hillary Clinton fucked up her run, so they pulled some nobody from a flyover state and he won because all he had against him was some unlikable harpy and a batman villain. Also, most of those pictures you posted, are from /pol/. You're welcome.
>Obamacare
>Iran deal
>Bringing his agenda into court cases like Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown
>Taking credit for the efforts of the oil industry making jobs
>Gun control
>increased the national debt by 8 trillion dollars
>Backed out of Iraq after we had ALREADY TAKEN CONTROL, now ISIS runs amuck

What is fundamentally wrong with American society? [chat with umbrax]
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2015, 05:15:26 AM »

    Offline Roxas

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You're an idiot. Obama is a horrible president. It's not treason to talk shit about the president or any politician. The only reason he was elected was because he's black. Hillary Clinton fucked up her run, so they pulled some nobody from a flyover state and he won because all he had against him was some unlikable harpy and a batman villain. Also, most of those pictures you posted, are from /pol/. You're welcome.
>Obamacare
>Iran deal
>Bringing his agenda into court cases like Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown
>Taking credit for the efforts of the oil industry making jobs
>Gun control
>increased the national debt by 8 trillion dollars
>Backed out of Iraq after we had ALREADY TAKEN CONTROL, now ISIS runs amuck
1. LEARN HOW TO READ
2. Take a government and U.S. History course thank you.
3. I said Obama was great when?
4. Do you even know the definition of treason?


Also I got all those pictures off of Facebook thank you . Just by scrolling through. Whoever the original creator is , Is of no importance . It's meant to show the ignorance of the peoples .however mike I don't really expect someone like you to understand .
You and Kiyza seem to have taken my words and twisted then into something they are not . At least Kiyza can state truths and no insult like a child when done so . Which is why I have not made a response to her statement , which we privately discussed anyway.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 05:23:13 AM by Roxas, Reason: Merged DoublePost »

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« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2015, 05:27:39 AM »

    Offline Mikecw.

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1. LEARN HOW TO READ
2. Take a government and U.S. History course thank you.
3. I said Obama was great when?
4. Do you even know the definition of treason?


I think you're the one who needs to learn how to read. You said that "these people" call Obama a traitor and that their comments can be considered treason. Talking shit about the president isn't naughtyword treason, slander, or libel you fuckwit.