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Topic: Great Ape, an alternative and why it's reasonable  (Read 8015 times)

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Great Ape, an alternative and why it's reasonable
« on: March 07, 2015, 08:32:04 PM »

    Offline Evangelion

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I know people will get upset about it, but let's face it - not everyone is a blonde hair loving maniac.
I'm one of those people that eventually got fed up with the SSJ hype. It's mainstream and boring!
I would love to play a human, but looking like a million other people that do exactly the same forces me away from it.

On the other hand we got the Great Ape. It's both canon and rarely gets used throughout the series.
It's also one of the few 'possible' transformation that was requested during the original game.
The user Rock brought it up shortly in the Saiyajin topic, reminding people that both the tail and models are in the game and were already extracted, while DBO was still live. To further contine the attack strings are also already present as part of the code.

As such a transformation similiar to the Great Namek could be created, which would be most likely used by some people if it goes along the lines where someone requested a SP change for the Namek skills.

Of course it would have to be wished via the dragon balls and the user wouldn't be able to become a SSJ - not that it matters, since that's the entire point of the idea.

tl;dr screw SSJ, more options are fun

Now feel free to throw poop at me, you SSJ lovers. :superangry:

Great Ape, an alternative and why it's reasonable
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2015, 08:42:40 PM »

    Offline Mindless

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IMO SSJ is cool for the hair change, but not on all DBZ chars. In games, and Xenoverse too, I prefer a million times Kaioken. About adding Great Ape, well I think it would require a lot of time to implement a transformation like this. If the team will feel like add new forms for each race one day maybe they'll do it. All we have to do is sit and wait  ;D

Great Ape, an alternative and why it's reasonable
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2015, 09:13:47 PM »
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Pretty sure ppl would like to see the tail as a dogi. And if it should get added as a dogi it still wouldn't be a reason to let Humans transform into an Oozaru...cuz it's just a dogi.

Also it makes no real sense to me to let Humans transform into an Oozaru. They are mostly Humans...they are born without a tail. And a tail is needed. So why should they be able to become an Oozaru? Because of a wish option? This could mean that Majins and Namekians could also become an Oozaru by wishing for it...
*click for original size*

Great Ape, an alternative and why it's reasonable
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2015, 10:06:59 PM »

    Offline Evangelion

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Just because you would like too it as a dogi, doesn't deny any of my points.

Again your point is flawed gibberish. In order to become a SSJ one needs to undergo excessive training. A threatening situation is also helpfull. DBO has more or less peacefull times and the technical amount of training your character does is essential a joke. Yet you are okay with becoming a SSJ through a wish.

DB GT Perfect Files despite not canon explains that saiyajins used to be Great Apes which eventually found the necessary intellect to gain a humanoid form. As such a wish transformation without an actual tail is as  redundant as a wish based on an almost non existant bloodline and once more the later one is okay in your mind but the first one not? That's blasphemy son.

I don't mind you disagreeing with my opinion, but at least come up with a reasonable justification.

Great Ape, an alternative and why it's reasonable
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2015, 10:54:38 PM »
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Now show me where i wrote that i'd like to see the tail as a dogi. I just wrote that some ppl want it as a dogi...this doesn't mean i want it.

Also the reason that SSJ was in DBO is because of the fanboys...and to let Humans look cooler with that ability. The story says "Saiyan blood became more diluted as it spread throughout the Earthlings" which means that Humans only have a little potential to activate those saiyan powers. And this happens through a wish since they are too weak.

Oozaru is a transformaion of the saiyans which is achieved with a saiyan tail. No tail = no Oozaru. We know that Goten and Trunks never were seen with a tail. Pretty sure they had one when they were born but it got removed and never grew back. And if this goes on for a longer time then one day the Human babies won't be even born with a tail. And in DBO Humans didn't have a tail.

And when you write that DB GT Perfect Files is not canon why do you even mention it? If it's not canon then it's not needed in DBO. DBO story starts after Kid Buu was defeated. Therefore everything related to DBGT has nothing to do here.

When a Saiyan turned into an Oozaru he couldn't really control it. He just destroyed everything. What makes you think a Human, who has a little bit of saiyan blood/genes left, can control the Oozaru form? Cuz it's just a game?

Humans are not Saiyans in DBO. They only have a little amount of blood/genes of saiyans thanks to Goku and Vegeta and their descendandts. And to activate its powers (SSJ) they have to ask Shenron. You can't just say "Hey...Saiyans used to transform into an Oozaru and since we have some saiyan genes in our bodies this means we can do it too!" although they don't even have a tail...this is nonsense. Shenron simply unlocks the hidden potential of Humans...like that fat Namekian dude who "unlocked" the hidden powers of Gohan and Krillin on Namek. Shenron does not give you SSJ (in the game it looks like he gives it to you xD)...he just unlocks it.

It's like you give Krillin or Yamcha some saiyan genes and wish for a saiyan tail and expect them to transform into an Oozaru...




« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 10:59:19 PM by Monkey D. Luffy »
*click for original size*

Great Ape, an alternative and why it's reasonable
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2015, 12:05:43 AM »

    Offline Rogue

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Now show me where i wrote that i'd like to see the tail as a dogi. I just wrote that some ppl want it as a dogi...this doesn't mean i want it.

Also the reason that SSJ was in DBO is because of the fanboys...and to let Humans look cooler with that ability. The story says "Saiyan blood became more diluted as it spread throughout the Earthlings" which means that Humans only have a little potential to activate those saiyan powers. And this happens through a wish since they are too weak.

Oozaru is a transformaion of the saiyans which is achieved with a saiyan tail. No tail = no Oozaru. We know that Goten and Trunks never were seen with a tail. Pretty sure they had one when they were born but it got removed and never grew back. And if this goes on for a longer time then one day the Human babies won't be even born with a tail. And in DBO Humans didn't have a tail.

And when you write that DB GT Perfect Files is not canon why do you even mention it? If it's not canon then it's not needed in DBO. DBO story starts after Kid Buu was defeated. Therefore everything related to DBGT has nothing to do here.

When a Saiyan turned into an Oozaru he couldn't really control it. He just destroyed everything. What makes you think a Human, who has a little bit of saiyan blood/genes left, can control the Oozaru form? Cuz it's just a game?

Humans are not Saiyans in DBO. They only have a little amount of blood/genes of saiyans thanks to Goku and Vegeta and their descendandts. And to activate its powers (SSJ) they have to ask Shenron. You can't just say "Hey...Saiyans used to transform into an Oozaru and since we have some saiyan genes in our bodies this means we can do it too!" although they don't even have a tail...this is nonsense. Shenron simply unlocks the hidden potential of Humans...like that fat Namekian dude who "unlocked" the hidden powers of Gohan and Krillin on Namek. Shenron does not give you SSJ (in the game it looks like he gives it to you xD)...he just unlocks it.

It's like you give Krillin or Yamcha some saiyan genes and wish for a saiyan tail and expect them to transform into an Oozaru...

Yea this seems about right. We don't have a tail so how can we do it? Also people might complain that it is unfair that humans have two transformations to choose from while majin and namekians only have one.

On a side note, I think eventually in the future the team might want to expand the storyline and possibly the timeline. Just so the game doesnt get boring but this is way after lvl 70 cap.
    
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Great Ape, an alternative and why it's reasonable
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2015, 12:40:20 AM »

    Offline Mirrow

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I personally think that it is not always neccesssary as proven in Xenoverse! I say Saiyans and humans should be a totally different race of people.
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Great Ape, an alternative and why it's reasonable
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2015, 01:38:13 AM »

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Luffy, you slept during your biology lessons, right?

The gene pool, despite being reduced is still there. Whether it's 100% or 0,000001% doesn't matter since Shenron can bring it out regardless. Otherwise you wouldn't get your SSJ transformation. The same applies to the Great Ape, hence i brought up the reminder. That you can't add one and one together is your problem.

Saiyan's received training to control it. DBO has time travel and through that even humans of the modern times can aquire the necessary knowledge.

He only unlocked some of the potential not all of it or how do you explain that the great kai could throw out even more when Gohan was an adult?

Every playable human belongs to their bloodline, as such you are not a descendant of Krilin.

Keep it going pal, i'm amused by your lack of proper arguments.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 01:47:01 AM by Evangelion »

Great Ape, an alternative and why it's reasonable
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2015, 01:57:37 AM »
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You see it that way i see it in another way.
Never wrote that i hate this suggestion...just said it makes no sense to me.

Still dunno why Humans should have Oozaru...it should stay something "special". The only way to meet an Oozaru in DBO is TMQ. And maybe an Event which i suggested a long time ago. Also what about Namekians and Majins? What would they get? People always making suggestions only for Humans.

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Great Ape, an alternative and why it's reasonable
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2015, 02:28:17 AM »

    Offline Evangelion

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Why would i make a suggestion for something i'm satisfied with? Doesn't make any sense at all.

But since you insisted....

Super Nameks (might be an anime only term refering to the power level of the unnamed namekian) or one of the many mutations and Super Buu. Both are self-explanatory and i assume the later one was requested multiple times anywas.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 02:51:32 AM by Evangelion »

Great Ape, an alternative and why it's reasonable
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2015, 03:49:04 AM »

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No, shenron would have to give u a tail and then you would have to wait on a full moon to activate or carry a machine with you. Shenron giving you an ape form just doesn't seem right. Also you wouldn't be to control yourself.

Now think about the other races. Namekians what would they possibly get? If you thinking about super namek, then your wrong. Why would you go from a huge behemoth to a buff dude. If it was the other way around maybe i would be able to see it.  Now in the anime usually when majin buu went into a different form someone got Absorb. Most likely they won't put absorption in game. So therefore everyone should st ick with what they have for noW.
    
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« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2015, 03:54:55 AM »

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You have great point XD, but try to look at things diffrently.
For example:
No one is in the same powers as no one in this game!
and besides its all about when you use skills,tactics,timing and of course.. luck xD
And yaa i do agree.. there should be more dogis,hair,colours and maybe a diffrent race or another few more classes soo it will be completely amazing

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« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2015, 04:40:40 AM »
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This sounds like a good idea for in implementation to the game, but maybe if for the human to become an oozaru, first they should have to collect all dragonballs and then wish for a tail. Once that happens maybe some form of a quest unlocks where you have to do something challenging in order to get it that way it should be fair for all. I would say to wish for the quest from shenron, but that sounds like we would all be working backwards lol
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Great Ape, an alternative and why it's reasonable
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2015, 04:47:53 AM »

    Offline Evangelion

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First of all Rogue, you forgot the existance of the power ball which is a ki based attack. Lore wise it drains a lot of power which could be compensated by giving the form a fix inital cooldown, just like it is done with the great namek.

Speed and access to most of your abilities, just like it's the case with the SSJ. It's like with the idea behind Trunks USJ. You trade one perk for another one.

Just assume it already has absorbed someone like Gohan and tada, you don't need to add Absorbtion as an active skill and just reuse an existing model. There's no point in over-complicating the subject.

The entire suggestion has been theoretical from the start, as such 'stick with what you got' doesn't make sense since this is a post-content topic.


Timid, that sounds like a great idea.

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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2015, 04:51:51 AM »
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I am excited to see what the team comes up with. I just can't wait to play
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« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2015, 05:14:10 AM »

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First of all Rogue, you forgot the existance of the power ball which is a ki based attack. Lore wise it drains a lot of power which could be compensated by giving the form a fix inital cooldown, just like it is done with the great namek.

Speed and access to most of your abilities, just like it's the case with the SSJ. It's like with the idea behind Trunks USJ. You trade one perk for another one.

Just assume it already has absorbed someone like Gohan and tada, you don't need to add Absorbtion as an active skill and just reuse an existing model. There's no point in over-complicating the subject.

The entire suggestion has been theoretical from the start, as such 'stick with what you got' doesn't make sense since this is a post-content topic.


Timid, that sounds like a great idea.

Ok but who or what would you absorb? Also the only reason why i am on the offensive about this suggestion is that it just doesn't add up. Again you wouldn't be able to control it. Also we are humans with hardly any sayain dna. They already gave us ssj which is already a stretch, bringing ape in it would be something else. Another thing, humans were born with a tiny bit of sayian blood, which allows us to go ssj due to shenron.  They weren't born with tails so shenron isn't just gonna give you a tail and you will be able to go ape. Also when majin buu transforms he stays within it until he gets more people or the people are taken out. Which means your charcter would stay in that form. Unless you stop the absorption which then you would have to absorb again.
    
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« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2015, 05:40:11 AM »

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You're all wasting your time arguing here. Whether each side has a point or not, I'm pretty sure/positive the DBOR team wouldn't add it either way.
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« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2015, 05:45:48 AM »

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Ok but who or what would you absorb? Also the only reason why i am on the offensive about this suggestion is that it just doesn't add up. Again you wouldn't be able to control it. Also we are humans with hardly any sayain dna. They already gave us ssj which is already a stretch, bringing ape in it would be something else. Another thing, humans were born with a tiny bit of sayian blood, which allows us to go ssj due to shenron.  They weren't born with tails so shenron isn't just gonna give you a tail and you will be able to go ape. Also when majin buu transforms he stays within it until he gets more people or the people are taken out. Which means your charcter would stay in that form. Unless you stop the absorption which then you would have to absorb again.

Like i said before - ape and blonde weirdos are on the same level of redundance and yet the later one is commonly accepted, as such i don't see a reason why anyone would be against some more diversity. It's not like people would be forced to use it.

The same applies to kid buu and that fella transforms back eventually. Don't get me wrong i understand your approach but you can't judge a flawed mechanic differently on the whim of your mood.

I'm only here to discuss an alternative to SSJ's that is within reach. Someone else should come up with an idea for namekians and majins if he feels like they need additional transformations since as i pointed out in my first post - i'm fine with the giant namek if it gets the already proposed SP change.

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« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2015, 06:13:06 AM »

    Offline Rogue

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yea not on the same lvl of redundance. Even goku and vegeta junior could go ssj and thier were like a 16th if a sayians i think it was. Just doesn't add up. Also are you saying that if you chose ape you couldn't choose sjj or are you saying it should come after ssj?

When someone makes a transformation suggestion that is for namekians and majins, that can make sense somewhat and also not throw storyline out OF whack (which you haven't done.) then maybe thua can be a possibilty.

I get where your coming from and all but you gotta understand that we arent as strong as Goku or Vegeta or even Goten and Pan. So we can't have everything sayaians have with less than an ounce of their blood.
Like i said ssj is already a stretch.


Not shutting your idea down just giving you constructive criticism sorry uf it comes off as something else.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 06:16:31 AM by Rogue, Reason: Merged DoublePost »
    
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« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2015, 06:36:55 AM »

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I know people will get upset about it, but let's face it - not everyone is a blonde hair loving maniac.
I'm one of those people that eventually got fed up with the SSJ hype. It's mainstream and boring!
I would love to play a human, but looking like a million other people that do exactly the same forces me away from it.

On the other hand we got the Great Ape. It's both canon and rarely gets used throughout the series.
It's also one of the few 'possible' transformation that was requested during the original game.
The user Rock brought it up shortly in the Saiyajin topic, reminding people that both the tail and models are in the game and were already extracted, while DBO was still live. To further contine the attack strings are also already present as part of the code.

As such a transformation similiar to the Great Namek could be created, which would be most likely used by some people if it goes along the lines where someone requested a SP change for the Namek skills.

Of course it would have to be wished via the dragon balls and the user wouldn't be able to become a SSJ - not that it matters, since that's the entire point of the idea.

tl;dr screw SSJ, more options are fun

Now feel free to throw poop at me, you SSJ lovers. :superangry:

You make a good point but I don't think the team will add it anyway. I also think SSJ is too mainstream and therefore I like Kaio-Ken more but I don't like the Ozaru form, mostly because in DB and DBZ you couldn't control yourself after transforming. Vegeta is the only one that shows signs of self-control through the whole anime/manga (unless someone else came up in the manga who had self control too). Having the transformation and being able to control it would be against the story.

It would still be cool to have it implemented but that would require to have another transformation for the other races to make it fair. I, personally, wouldn't use it too much but I wouldn't complain if it gets added.

The tail, at least as a dogi, is a must in my opinion. I've always wanted to have a tail Please DBOR team!
« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 06:59:09 AM by Tofu »
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Great Ape, an alternative and why it\'s reasonable
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2015, 06:47:29 AM »

    Offline Evangelion

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yea not on the same lvl of redundance. Even goku and vegeta junior could go ssj and thier were like a 16th if a sayians i think it was. Just doesn't add up. Also are you saying that if you chose ape you couldn't choose sjj or are you saying it should come after ssj?

When someone makes a transformation suggestion that is for namekians and majins, that can make sense somewhat and also not throw storyline out OF whack (which you haven't done.) then maybe thua can be a possibilty.

I get where your coming from and all but you gotta understand that we arent as strong as Goku or Vegeta or even Goten and Pan. So we can't have everything sayaians have with less than an ounce of their blood.
Like i said ssj is already a stretch.


Not shutting your idea down just giving you constructive criticism sorry uf it comes off as something else.

Both are related to the gene code, as such i see it at the same level of redundance. But i guess we see that different.

I think i stated before that if you choose to become a ssj you shouldn't be able to turn into an ape and vice versa to keep some balance.

That is a given. Someone that dislikes the other races transformations will most likely come up with something more suitable than i did with my '10 seconds of thought' attempt.

That unreasonable stretch pulled by the DBO devs is the sole reason why i brought up my suggestion. Shenanigans like that was pulled of already and so a tad more of it won't hurt.

Great Ape, an alternative and why it's reasonable
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2015, 07:04:52 AM »

    Offline Rogue

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Its shenanigans like this that was the problem. Lets facr man, it won't happen. If it does it might be years from now.
    
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Great Ape, an alternative and why it's reasonable
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2015, 07:11:57 AM »

    Offline Evangelion

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No harm in trying. Eventually there has to be custom content anyway. I don't expect anything soon, so whatever comes will take years and will be  shenanigans for sure. The entire SSJ crap pushed the door open.

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« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2015, 10:25:19 AM »

    Offline SantiHN

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You seem very biased only because you don't seem to like looking as others and be the edgy outcast. Your first post and last post as of now clearly demonstrate that.

This peeps are saying that Saiyan is the basic limit because the lore has stated it like that. They have stated like it's the only dormant power left by saiyans, because the lore has explained it like that.

You seem to attack them with "You slept through your biology class didn't you" and shit like that. Are you really trying to apply real life science to facts about humans being able to succesfully reproduce with an alien bipedal race? To people that is able to have a sudden burst of physical capability only because they're mad? To humanoids becoming giant gorillas? Please, be a little bit more serious.

If you wanted to pull shit like Biology, you say "Even if it's 100% or 0.00001% it's still there". Have you considered evolution? If the thing is not useful its discarded, as it's a waste of energy. Humans didn't have the need of becoming Oozaru, so that recessive gene was simply discarded. There, have your pseudobiological fact.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 12:59:56 PM by SantiHN, Reason: typo »

Great Ape, an alternative and why it's reasonable
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2015, 10:32:21 AM »

    Offline Tofu

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Have you considered evolution? If the thing is not useful its discarded, as it's a waste of energy. Humans didn't have the need of becoming Oozaru, so that recessive gene was simply discarded. There, have your pseudobiological fact.

I was thinking of this for a long time while reading the thread but at some point I forgot about it with all the replies. You're right though, we're talking about Humans reproducing with Saiyans, which are aliens, so we can't just assume the genetics work the same way as when a Human mates with another.
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