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Topic: Caps on Anti-______  (Read 6451 times)

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Caps on Anti-______
« on: February 16, 2015, 12:03:18 AM »

    Offline Chinwuke

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I've heard about a likely cap on speed but, unless I've missed it, I haven't heard anyone suggest having caps on things like anti-bleed, anti-crit, anti-stun, ect. I'm curious on what some veterans of DBO think about having caps on anti-type things. Maybe 70% for example. I'm also curious on what any experienced MMO players think about it.

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2015, 11:31:57 PM »

    Offline Iceman

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It would be way better that those things won't get cap.
Come just think about it.
If you cap anti-bleed, you will get raped by cranes, too easy and all others things.

Still about that speed, I think about it and maybe it should be capped only in UD, TMQ and CC dungeons.

Maybe even better it would be to add buffs to some high mobs and boss there that prevent 2000 dmg, this way auto attack would be useless.

Still full speed nerf in PVE and PVP will change a lot of things.
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Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2015, 01:40:16 AM »

    Offline Chinwuke

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It would be way better that those things won't get cap.
Come just think about it.
If you cap anti-bleed, you will get raped by cranes, too easy and all others things.

If you cap anti-bleed at say 90% a max lvl crane's bleed will only last 6 seconds. That's 3 ticks of damage. You still think cranes will rape everything? And what do you mean "all other things"?

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 08:11:10 AM »

    Offline Iceman

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All other things you said like anti-stun, anti-paral, anti-critic...
Trust me for crane you need how much you could get anti bleed and have in inventory others things if they don't use only bleed.

Still lets check, if you were swordman or other class and you had high upgrade gear and you face SK, with OP anti-bleed you would only get bold dmg and not bleed.

Plus on other hand, if sword fail with stun or duration of stun is low thx to anti-stun, you have chance to stop him before he do anything.

I know that maybe isn't big deal to get it 100% anti bleed, anti paral, anti stun, anti poison but still I would be happy to know that there is that option.


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Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2015, 08:36:51 AM »

    Offline Chinwuke

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1All other things you said like anti-stun, anti-paral, anti-critic...
Trust me for crane you need how much you could get anti bleed and have in inventory others things if they don't use only bleed.

2Still lets check, if you were swordman or other class and you had high upgrade gear and you face SK, with OP anti-bleed you would only get bold dmg and not bleed.

3Plus on other hand, if sword fail with stun or duration of stun is low thx to anti-stun, you have chance to stop him before he do anything.

4I know that maybe isn't big deal to get it 100% anti bleed, anti paral, anti stun, anti poison but still I would be happy to know that there is that option.

I'm sorry but I don't understand a lot of what you are saying.

1. It sounds like you're saying 6sec of bleed (3 ticks of bleed damage) is too much?

2. I think you are saying if a SM that uses anti-bleed (100%) he will not get bleed damage from a Bold Strike attack from an SK. If that's what you are saying then I would say to you that even with 90% anti-bleed you will get no bleed damage from that attack.

3. MA stuns are not affected by anti-paralysis

4. I respect your opinion here and I'm sure many others share that opinion as well, but I would argue that the game would be more balanced for many reasons if everything (anti-gear) were at least capped at 90%. For example, if you have a stun (or any type of interruption skill) that would only last .3 seconds (because of ~90% anti-paralysis) it could still come in handy just for interruptions. When you take that away and have 0 second stun certain classes have a major disadvantage to others. Another good example is Anti-Crit. I think even you would agree (as well as others) that there is a chance the DBOR team will bring the old scouters back making it possible to have 100% anti-crit again. Imagine a fighter going against an sk (or any tanky class or even dende) and can't crit him. Too unbalanced don't you agree? And yes eventually the DBOR team will try and balance the classes but how do you think they can balance a fighter not being able to crit even 1% against classes with 20k+ health or the ability to heal?

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2015, 09:50:18 AM »
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Wow... So you're saying that the crane's max level dodon ray that lasts for almost 2m30s is gonna be 6 secs, that's a new one.
I'm pretty sure NO ONE capped anti whatever in the original game, I mean no one got 100% anti anti anti. If they did, it would have been legendary kraken drops or whatevz.
Too early to think about this.

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2015, 10:02:12 AM »

    Offline Iceman

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@Chinwuke like I said I just wana have that option to be able to get 100%, unless DBOR Team fix some skills, debuffs that had too long duration.

Still Crane master passive increase duration for 50 sec...
Still I just don't want to touch this things you are talking about since some skills may be changed, and anti paral works only on paral skills and not stuns.

Wow... So you're saying that the crane's max level dodon ray that lasts for almost 2m30s is gonna be 6 secs, that's a new one.
I'm pretty sure NO ONE capped anti whatever in the original game, I mean no one got 100% anti anti anti. If they did, it would have been legendary kraken drops or whatevz.
Too early to think about this.

LMAO, 2m... Maybe 1 min, but 2 lol.

And yeah @GoldGinkaku too eary to talk about this, I am sure that DBOR Team will think about skills and this things when they start to work to bring balance in game.
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Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2015, 10:25:16 AM »

    Offline Chinwuke

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@Chinwuke like I said I just wana have that option to be able to get 100%, unless DBOR Team fix some skills, debuffs that had too long duration.

Still Crane master passive increase duration for 50 sec...
Still I just don't want to touch this things you are talking about since some skills may be changed, and anti paral works only on paral skills and not stuns.

And yeah @GoldGinkaku too eary to talk about this, I am sure that DBOR Team will think about skills and this things when they start to work to bring balance in game.

Again I'm not sure I understand you correctly. What debuffs had too long duration? The bleeds/dots? Yes one minute. With 90% anti-bleed that would be 6 seconds. So you're saying 6 second bleed debuff is too long? Or you're saying something else?

And yes anti-paralysis only works on paralysis skills not stuns like i said before. I'm not sure what you're saying there. But as far as not wanting to 'touch' anything yet...no one is going to change anything yet. Absolutely nothing will change until the full game has been released. That came straight from the DBOR team so don't worry. I'd like for you to answer something for me though. In your opinion, why is capping anti-_____ at 90% a bad thing? And I'm referring to how DBO was not what DBOR may be.

Edit: I came across something you once said

Iceman: "Well look where it was anti critic, there was small chance to critic someone.
But yeah SK had more anti critic than anyone.
Still if you wear props, you could make ok dmg.

Without anti critic it was too easy to one shot people. xD

Idk what is better, anti critic era or one shot era. xD"

A reasonable cap on anti-crit (with scouter chips) would solve that problem.

Wow... So you're saying that the crane's max level dodon ray that lasts for almost 2m30s is gonna be 6 secs, that's a new one.
I'm pretty sure NO ONE capped anti whatever in the original game, I mean no one got 100% anti anti anti. If they did, it would have been legendary kraken drops or whatevz.
Too early to think about this.

Where do you see any bleeds lasting almost 2 and a half minutes?? All the crane bleeds last 10 seconds by default. With the master passive skill, it is increased by 50 seconds to a total of 1 minute. And for capping anti-_____, you obviously misunderstand. There are no "single" items that give you 100% anti-anything. However, you can use 2 or 3 items to add up to 100%. In 1v1 pvp people do this all the time. Especially against a crane. I hope you understand now. Oh and in case you don't realize, when I say anti-bleed, I mean Anti-bleed duration.

Oh and as far as "too early to think about this". Why? For what other purpose would the team make a place for suggestions if they did not want suggestions??
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 12:39:30 PM by Chinwuke »

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2015, 10:32:19 AM »
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You guys have never played crane have you...?

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2015, 10:44:40 AM »

    Offline Chinwuke

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You guys have never played crane have you...?

I can't speak for Iceman but of course I have. I've played every class to max lvl. Crane and Dende are my two favorite classes. But feel free to tell me why you're right and I'm wrong. I'll wait..

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2015, 11:05:37 AM »
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Pretty sure Dodon ray clocked minimum 1m50s on crane, no idea what you get your info from.

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2015, 11:19:21 AM »

    Offline Chinwuke

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Pretty sure Dodon ray clocked minimum 1m50s on crane, no idea what you get your info from.

Have you played as a Crane before? I'm curious, how long do you think every other crane DOT is?

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2015, 12:47:36 PM »

    Offline NIC3

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100% anti ____ wont be possible in 38 cap. relax.

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2015, 12:49:13 PM »

    Offline Chinwuke

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100% anti ____ wont be possible in 38 cap. relax.

I know. This is just a suggestion for the game in general.

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2015, 11:03:11 PM »

    Offline Aeris

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Pretty sure Dodon ray clocked minimum 1m50s on crane, no idea what you get your info from.

Lmfao. Maybe with the RP ball that increase the effect duration. Nah, still..

@Chinwuke like I said I just wana have that option to be able to get 100%, unless DBOR Team fix some skills, debuffs that had too long duration.

Still Crane master passive increase duration for 50 sec...

Yeah, crane have that passive, but you know you could get more than 100% antibleed right?

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2015, 12:26:02 AM »
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Actually yes with RP. Just forgot about that, and yes I did play a crane at level 70.

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2015, 09:57:24 AM »

    Offline Aeris

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Jesus Christ people, don't give them any ideas of NERFING cranes of all things e.e

Cranes were one of the most underpowered classes in the game (as of lvl 70 cap at least). What they need urgently is a burn skill on par with the damage output of dodon ray aka dodonpa. Solid bleed may be spammable with its low cd but its damage is shit-tier.

(Srsly, the devs better get on this asap and make cranes decent in dbor! >.<; )

lol Solid Bleed hadn't shit dmg. The big problem with that skill is the SPs you needed to waste on it. What cranes need urgently is a fast stun.

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2015, 10:11:59 AM »

    Offline Aeris

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Dude, wtf? Solid bleed's dmg was like almost half of dodonpa + it had a longer animation.

I agree with you on the stun tho. But let me rephase your last sentence to "they need lost in time back"

pff, you are dreaming if you want Lost in Time back. There is nothing the devs can do about old skills i think.

And the solid bleed of my crane could leave 1k burn. It isn't as strong as dodon ray, sure, but was quite useful and also a very good skill.

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2015, 10:34:38 AM »

    Offline Chinwuke

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Jesus Christ people, don't give them any ideas of NERFING cranes of all things e.e

Cranes were one of the most underpowered classes in the game (as of lvl 70 cap at least). What they need urgently is a burn skill on par with the damage output of dodon ray aka dodonpa. Solid bleed may be spammable with its low cd but its damage is shit-tier.

(Srsly, the devs better get on this asap and make cranes decent in dbor! >.<; )

Who said anything about nerfing Cranes? Having caps on anti-bleed would help cranes..

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2015, 11:11:23 AM »

    Offline pometa

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Who said anything about nerfing Cranes? Having caps on anti-bleed would help cranes..

Sorry, I doubt that.

lol Solid Bleed hadn't shit dmg. The big problem with that skill is the SPs you needed to waste on it. What cranes need urgently is a fast stun.

Solid Bleed is not a good skill. I do not think they can relocate Lost in Time, but the cranes would gain much if they will put KD in Searing Crane.

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2015, 11:28:49 AM »

    Offline Inzane

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Cranes do need a quick stun, like Lost in Time. I wish they would bring that back. Searing Crane should have kd on it.

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2015, 11:38:49 AM »

    Offline Chinwuke

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Sorry, I doubt that.

Solid Bleed is not a good skill. I do not think they can relocate Lost in Time, but the cranes would gain much if they will put KD in Searing Crane.
You doubt what? That having a cap on anti-bleed would help cranes? It would help if you explained yourself when you respond. Having a cap would help cranes because their bleeds would always be able to do 'some' damage even with the max amount of anti bleed.

And solid bleed is a good skill because there is no anti-burn. You just need to know how to implement it. Even without RP you can do 19,500 damage in combination with thousand slashes. And that's not including the initial damage of the skill, only the burn damage and that is AFTER 10 seconds of the burn being on (you only need to wait 5 seconds). Combine that with graceful backstab and you will one shot any person with less than 29,200 LP. You only need to know how to impliment the strategy.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 11:53:49 AM by Chinwuke »

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2015, 11:44:39 AM »

    Offline Aeris

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Solid Bleed is not a good skill. I do not think they can relocate Lost in Time, but the cranes would gain much if they will put KD in Searing Crane.

With %physcritic on weapons and good gloves it could be a good skill. I'm surprised that all of you say that, because you played as a crane right? Or you didn't have Solid Bleed on your build?

KD on searing crane would be great, but I still think that a fast stun is more needed.


Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2015, 11:46:01 AM »

    Offline Inzane

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With %physcritic on weapons and good gloves it could be a good skill. I'm surprised that all of you say that, because you played as a crane right? Or you didn't have Solid Bleed on your build?

KD on searing crane would be great, but I still think that a fast stun is more needed.
Yeah fast stun is more needed. I'd like both.

Caps on Anti-______
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2015, 07:01:33 PM »

    Offline Chinwuke

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There is so much popo in this statement its unbelievable.

First off let me ask how you intend to get 5+ solid bleeds on your opponent right after each other? That is the only way you'd get that kind of damage off of 1 k slashes in conjunction with solid bleed. Is your opponent just going to sit there taking in the scenery?

Ok I will break it down as much as I can for you. Solid bleed at 8/8 does 210 burn damage every two seconds by default and lasts 10 seconds by default. The passive on the Spiritualist tree called "increase persisted damage" increases the damage on DOT moves. It maxes out at 22%. The passive on the Crane tree called "Crane Presentation Master" increases the damage from DOT skills by a maximum of 96%. This is a total of (22+96) 118%. So the damage goes from 210 to (210+ 1.18(210)) ~458 every two seconds.  And another thing the Crane passive does is it (when maxed out) adds an additional 50 seconds to the duration of DOT skills. This means solid bleed lasts for 1 minute. So every two seconds of damage means 30 ticks of damage gets you (458 x 30) ~13,740 burn damage. But I'm not even gonna include the first 10 seconds. We'll put that time away to make sure you have time to use Thousand Slashes (only requires 5 seconds). So that leaves us with 50 (25 ticks of damage) seconds of burn damage for a total of ~11,450 damage. Now for thousand slashes. I think you understand that it will do all the DOT damage left in an instant. However, it does 170% of the damage left (for the DOT's that have been there for at least 5 seconds). That means 11,450 x 1.7 = approximately 19,465 total damage from that one burn. (Keep in mind these calculations don't include the initial damage from the attacks which depends on your weapon so actual damage is higher).  Do you understand how I got these numbers or object in any way? Also I'm curious if you've ever leveled a crane before to max lvl.

And most importantly, if you dissagree, I'd like to see your calculations.

EDIT: oh and Graceful Backstab lowers LP of opponents within 15m by 33% when maxed. So if one person had, idk, 29,000LP it would be reduced to about 19,333 LP. Putting them in One-shot territory for my above explanation.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 07:16:01 PM by Chinwuke »