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Topic: Just a theory, but... Is it possible?  (Read 4716 times)

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Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« on: December 21, 2014, 01:18:02 PM »
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No time for intros, gotta spill it all before I forget anything else. WARNINNG: If you havent seen everything about Dragon Ball you might want to hit "Go Back" some spoilers have been spotted. I've been thinking: what is it that helps saiyan blooded humanoids reach the status of Super Saiyan? Are the feelings the answer? Is it Goku or simply another Super Saiyan tutor the common denominator? Near death experience itself is enough, or is it possible that human DNA amplifies the Saiyan DNA characteristics?

It goes a little like this: First Super Saiyan ever (timeline) is Bardock after having a change of heart. His emotions (those that the rest of the saiyan warriors seem to repent and supress) are his path to achieveing the state of Super Saiyan. So, it is only logical that Goku (who as you know, shares his blood) after his headbump and subsequent change of heart also does, eventually. But what about Gohan, Goten and Trunks, those half Saiyan, half human? Evidently they have half the Saiyan blood, so naturally it should be more difficult for them to achieve such power; despite this, they seem to find a way to it much sooner than their parents, sometimes even without them (like Goten surprising Gohan while training when he says "I can get my hair to change color too"). I've been thouroughly skimming through all this options and I just can't make an answer as a whole but feel always on the verge of it. What do you think?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2014, 01:35:38 PM by LinkTomBer »

Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2014, 01:35:46 PM »

    Offline SantiHN

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Don't think of it as "amount of blood". It doesn't work like that. Think of it as "genes". Genetics. The saiyan ability to change hair color and amplify the user's capacities comes from genetics, not "amount of blood". That's why still peeps in DBO can become Saiyans (although its a recessive gene I believe. Haven't had biology in a while) but need help from a magic wish.

Rage is a big factor in making someone with saiyan blood able to become, well, a saiyan, since rage makes them stronger (you could think of this like adrenaline making humans stronger), but it's not entirely necessary to be raging to become a Saiyan like Trunks and Gotenks demonstrated.

But here we are again trying to apply real life science to anime.

Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2014, 01:37:57 PM »

    Offline Nia

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Bardock never turned into a Super-Saiyajin.
Episode of Bardock is 100% non-canon.

As it is, the transformation seems to simply be a case of something that any Saiyajin with sufficient power can use. But it needs to be triggered by a raw feeling of rage, desperation, or hopelessness.

As for why Gohan, Goten, and Trunks gained it faster...
Well, Gohan learned it from Goku, who explained in great detail how to trigger the transformation.
As for Goten and Trunks, it's never made clear.

It's been explained that Saiyajin blood mixing with Human blood seems to trigger a certain quickening of sorts. They gain vast amounts of power quickly... but they also seem to lose it quite easily if they don't continually work at it. They also lack the natural talent for battle and the lust for fighting that a full-blooded Saiyajin has.
Basically, it seems they have the potential (to a certain degree), but not the drive or the long-term boosts.

In other words, Goten and Trunks could use it so young, without training, due to plot convenience.


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2014, 01:45:23 PM »
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You also have to take into consideration that the SSJ transformation was extremely rare. Broly was the Legendary Super Saiyan a transformation that hasnt been seen in 1000 years. And apparently the regular SSJ transformation was rare as well, however as someone mentioned before it has nothing to do with "blood" but rather inherent genes. The genetics of the Humans in DBO have been diluted (their saiyan genes that is) to the point in which they cannot activate the transformation on their own, however the potential to go SSJ is still there because of the weak recessive gene, which is why the dragon can awaken it.

Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2014, 01:47:47 PM »

    Offline Nia

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Broly really wasn't "the Legendary Super-Saiyajin."
He's non-canon, created only for the movies. Nothing regarding his history or capabilities is relevant to any discussion outside of those specific for Movies 8, 10, and 11.


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2014, 01:48:52 PM »

    Offline Kaiza

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I've always viewed the requirements to becoming a super saiyan as this (this is my opinion. Not necessarily what's true):

To become a super saiyan, you must have a change of heart.

Goku, the innocent yet strong fighter, usually never would want to kill another being. He's a fighter that thirsts to improve and never wants to use his power for evil. However, as we see him face Frieza, Goku loses his mind to his rage. For the first time, he essentially has the feelings/emotions to kill Frieza and make him pay for killing his friends.

Gohan followed his father's teaching step by step. Like Nia said it was basically written out for him by Goku. If you recall, Gohan turns SSJ1 by remembering all the instances he sat there and did nothing - either because he was too afraid or too powerless to help. At that moment, he vowed to himself that he wouldn't be that any more. He had that change of heart to become someone useful.

Vegeta trained super hard on a distant planet trying to surpass Goku. But Vegeta's story of becoming super saiyan clearly shows it's not just about power level. There's something deeper than that. His change of heart was when he finally didn't care. He states that he just didn't care any more about trying to surpass Goku or really...anything at all. He had enough and at that moment he turned SSJ1

Goten and Trunks...it's sad really. I feel like SSJ1 was just given to them otherwise they'd be useless on a power level basis.
Peace is nothing but the result of war
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Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2014, 01:49:56 PM »
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Broly really wasn't "the Legendary Super-Saiyajin."
He's non-canon, created only for the movies. Nothing regarding his history or capabilities is relevant to any discussion outside of those specific for Movies 8, 10, and 11.
Is that how ssj is originally spelled

I thought it was saiyan

Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2014, 01:51:05 PM »

    Offline Kaiza

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Is that how ssj is originally spelled

I thought it was saiyan

Saiyan came from the dubbing/subbing. I think.

Saiyajin is how you're supposed to say it...based on the original japanese voice acting.

correct me if I'm wrong @Nia.
Peace is nothing but the result of war
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Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2014, 01:54:58 PM »

    Offline Nia

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Saiyajin is the correct Japanese spelling, yes. Saiya is a parody of yasai (vegetable) and jin means (people).
I can understand dropping the "jin" part, since it's rather culturally specific, although the way the pronounce "Saiya" in English is incorrect (much like how for a long time, they would mispronounce Kaioken).

It should be said as "sigh-yah," not "say-ya."

...Wow... I can really nerd up a thread, huh? XD


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2014, 01:56:40 PM »

    Offline Kaiza

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Saiyajin is the correct Japanese spelling, yes. Saiya is a parody of yasai (vegetable) and jin means (people).
I can understand dropping the "jin" part, since it's rather culturally specific, although the way the pronounce "Saiya" in English is incorrect (much like how for a long time, they would mispronounce Kaioken).

It should be said as "sigh-yah," not "say-ya."

...Wow... I can really nerd up a thread, huh? XD

Naw I always found small facts like these interesting. You can never have too much knowledge :P

...unless you're on reddit or 4chan.
Peace is nothing but the result of war
Need a Sig? Follow me on DeviantArt here: http://kaizayamishira.deviantart.com/

Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2014, 02:05:47 PM »

    Offline SantiHN

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I've always viewed the requirements to becoming a super saiyan as this (this is my opinion. Not necessarily what's true):

To become a super saiyan, you must have a change of heart.


Well, on the mexican dub, which is the one that I grew up watching, I remember that the first time Vegeta turned into a saiyan someone said "But to be a saiyan didn't you have to be pure of heart?" and he answered "Yes. I'm pure evil."

Kuririn: “Th-that’s impossible…! Wh-why can he become a Super Saiyan…?! Don’t you have to have a tranquil heart to become one…!?”
Vegeta: “I was tranquil…Tranquil and pure…Pure evil, that is…I wished to get strong just by training earnestly…And so I went through stupendous training over and over again…Eventually, I realized my limits…Through my anger towards myself, I suddenly awakened…into a Super Saiyan!”

Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2014, 04:25:06 PM »

    Offline Ryoko

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Saiyajin is the correct Japanese spelling, yes. Saiya is a parody of yasai (vegetable) and jin means (people).
I can understand dropping the "jin" part, since it's rather culturally specific, although the way the pronounce "Saiya" in English is incorrect (much like how for a long time, they would mispronounce Kaioken).

It should be said as "sigh-yah," not "say-ya."

...Wow... I can really nerd up a thread, huh?

Hmmm Sigh-yah you say? tbh that just doesn't sound like it should be a name for a race. Especially in english it would sound like Sigh-yan but say-yan Sounds better imo.

Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2014, 06:12:11 PM »

    Offline Rock

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No time for intros, gotta spill it all before I forget anything else. WARNINNG: If you havent seen everything about Dragon Ball you might want to hit "Go Back" some spoilers have been spotted. I've been thinking: what is it that helps saiyan blooded humanoids reach the status of Super Saiyan? Are the feelings the answer? Is it Goku or simply another Super Saiyan tutor the common denominator? Near death experience itself is enough, or is it possible that human DNA amplifies the Saiyan DNA characteristics?

It goes a little like this: First Super Saiyan ever (timeline) is Bardock after having a change of heart. His emotions (those that the rest of the saiyan warriors seem to repent and supress) are his path to achieveing the state of Super Saiyan. So, it is only logical that Goku (who as you know, shares his blood) after his headbump and subsequent change of heart also does, eventually. But what about Gohan, Goten and Trunks, those half Saiyan, half human? Evidently they have half the Saiyan blood, so naturally it should be more difficult for them to achieve such power; despite this, they seem to find a way to it much sooner than their parents, sometimes even without them (like Goten surprising Gohan while training when he says "I can get my hair to change color too"). I've been thouroughly skimming through all this options and I just can't make an answer as a whole but feel always on the verge of it. What do you think?

I believe everyone being able to achieve SSJ was thanks to being around, and training with, Goku. As for DBO characters achieving SSJ, it's thanks to Shenron.

Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2014, 09:39:47 PM »

    Offline Jak

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I've always viewed the requirements to becoming a super saiyan as this (this is my opinion. Not necessarily what's true):

To become a super saiyan, you must have a change of heart.

Goku, the innocent yet strong fighter, usually never would want to kill another being. He's a fighter that thirsts to improve and never wants to use his power for evil. However, as we see him face Frieza, Goku loses his mind to his rage. For the first time, he essentially has the feelings/emotions to kill Frieza and make him pay for killing his friends.

Gohan followed his father's teaching step by step. Like Nia said it was basically written out for him by Goku. If you recall, Gohan turns SSJ1 by remembering all the instances he sat there and did nothing - either because he was too afraid or too powerless to help. At that moment, he vowed to himself that he wouldn't be that any more. He had that change of heart to become someone useful.

Vegeta trained super hard on a distant planet trying to surpass Goku. But Vegeta's story of becoming super saiyan clearly shows it's not just about power level. There's something deeper than that. His change of heart was when he finally didn't care. He states that he just didn't care any more about trying to surpass Goku or really...anything at all. He had enough and at that moment he turned SSJ1

Goten and Trunks...it's sad really. I feel like SSJ1 was just given to them otherwise they'd be useless on a power level basis.

This is purely speculation, based on nothing but their personalities as well as Vegeta trying to beat Goku vicariously through Trunks which he's already shown he has a tendency to do, but I think how Goten and Trunks fit into this is that those two did not always get along so well.

Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2014, 10:22:10 PM »

    Offline Rogue

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No time for intros, gotta spill it all before I forget anything else. WARNINNG: If you havent seen everything about Dragon Ball you might want to hit "Go Back" some spoilers have been spotted. I've been thinking: what is it that helps saiyan blooded humanoids reach the status of Super Saiyan? Are the feelings the answer? Is it Goku or simply another Super Saiyan tutor the common denominator? Near death experience itself is enough, or is it possible that human DNA amplifies the Saiyan DNA characteristics?

It goes a little like this: First Super Saiyan ever (timeline) is Bardock after having a change of heart. His emotions (those that the rest of the saiyan warriors seem to repent and supress) are his path to achieveing the state of Super Saiyan. So, it is only logical that Goku (who as you know, shares his blood) after his headbump and subsequent change of heart also does, eventually. But what about Gohan, Goten and Trunks, those half Saiyan, half human? Evidently they have half the Saiyan blood, so naturally it should be more difficult for them to achieve such power; despite this, they seem to find a way to it much sooner than their parents, sometimes even without them (like Goten surprising Gohan while training when he says "I can get my hair to change color too"). I've been thouroughly skimming through all this options and I just can't make an answer as a whole but feel always on the verge of it. What do you think?

I have thought the same thing.
    
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Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2015, 12:45:21 AM »

    Offline Mirrow

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No time for intros, gotta spill it all before I forget anything else. WARNINNG: If you havent seen everything about Dragon Ball you might want to hit "Go Back" some spoilers have been spotted. I've been thinking: what is it that helps saiyan blooded humanoids reach the status of Super Saiyan? Are the feelings the answer? Is it Goku or simply another Super Saiyan tutor the common denominator? Near death experience itself is enough, or is it possible that human DNA amplifies the Saiyan DNA characteristics?

It goes a little like this: First Super Saiyan ever (timeline) is Bardock after having a change of heart. His emotions (those that the rest of the saiyan warriors seem to repent and supress) are his path to achieveing the state of Super Saiyan. So, it is only logical that Goku (who as you know, shares his blood) after his headbump and subsequent change of heart also does, eventually. But what about Gohan, Goten and Trunks, those half Saiyan, half human? Evidently they have half the Saiyan blood, so naturally it should be more difficult for them to achieve such power; despite this, they seem to find a way to it much sooner than their parents, sometimes even without them (like Goten surprising Gohan while training when he says "I can get my hair to change color too"). I've been thouroughly skimming through all this options and I just can't make an answer as a whole but feel always on the verge of it. What do you think?

Well.......It is pretty simple! If you noticed in the series before Goten and Trunks were born GOku and Vegeta were SSJ's! Because they turned SSJ before they decided to have kids Goten and Trunks was able to inherit the SSJ abilities through Genetics!!!
GUILD MARINE CORPS RECRUITING!!! PM  Mirrow (Me) or Jaryan TO JOIN!

Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2015, 01:09:46 AM »

    Offline Roxas

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WHAT ABOUT FUTURE TRUNKS !!! He wasn't able to go super like his kid self was automatically, he had to train and get angry enough rondeau that level!! And VEGETA was already a super saiyan before he died . So it makes no sense ! Unless the ability is a dominate trait that once a saiyan achieves it is passed down to their children allowing them to access it more easily in which case goten and trunks might have had a baby fight and got mad while fighting each other .

Didnt your parents tell you not to play with me? Youll get burned.

Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2015, 01:13:13 AM »

    Offline SSJGGoku

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WHAT ABOUT FUTURE TRUNKS !!! He wasn't able to go super like his kid self was automatically, he had to train and get angry enough rondeau that level!! And VEGETA was already a super saiyan before he died . So it makes no sense ! Unless the ability is a dominate trait that once a saiyan achieves it is passed down to their children allowing them to access it more easily in which case goten and trunks might have had a baby fight and got mad while fighting each other .
I thought in the alternate timeline Vegeta didn't receive super saiyan yet. I could be wrong by the way. I haven't watched Dragon Ball Z in a while.

Special thanks to Kaiza for this awesome sig!

Just a theory, but... Is it possible?
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2015, 03:28:27 AM »

    Offline Nia

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WHAT ABOUT FUTURE TRUNKS !!! He wasn't able to go super like his kid self was automatically, he had to train and get angry enough rondeau that level!! And VEGETA was already a super saiyan before he died . So it makes no sense ! Unless the ability is a dominate trait that once a saiyan achieves it is passed down to their children allowing them to access it more easily in which case goten and trunks might have had a baby fight and got mad while fighting each other .

Not entirely accurate. That was only in the TV special.
In the manga chapter, Trunks was already transformed.




And for those wondering, this isn't from the color re-release of the manga, but was one of the colored chapters when it originally appeared in Shonen Jump.


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."