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Topic: What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?  (Read 6661 times)

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What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« on: November 06, 2014, 10:47:45 AM »

    Offline Umbrax

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WARNING: THIS IS A FRIENDLY DISCUSSION THAT WILL SERVE AS A GUIDE AS TO HOW STRONG GOKU IS, AND ONCE WE HAVE THE DEFINITIVE ANSWER THIS WILL BE LOCKED. I WILL NOT TOLERATE ANY NAME CALLING. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

Well hello folks, it's be back! finally

I havent done one of these in a while so...

I set out to answer what the gravity on King Kai's planet is to reevaluate Goku's feats on King Kai's Planet.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/theorhetically-how-powerful-should-goku-really-be--563233/

I stumbled upon a rare meaningful topic on Comicvine that got me interested.

Well the feats I will be looking at are Goku struggling to lift 40 tons on King Kai's planet and him punching threw King Kai's Planet at SSJ3 in BOTG

Goku is SSJ lifting 40 tons isn't impressive you say?

Well lets look at the fact:

Gravity is very dependent on density and mass. The more compact it is, the more the gravity is.

This ties in also with Goku's BOTG feat, because we need to know how dense King Kai's planet is.

I have heard many many people say it's above the density and mass of earth.

If that's the case we can be looking at many tons Goku punched through.

Back to the first feat, we need to know the mass of King Kai's planet so we plug in these formulas:



We know the density of Earth (assuming Z Earth is the Density of regular Earth) and is the density of King Kai's planet.

Earth's density is 5.52 g/cm³, so lets start calculating people!





 




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What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2014, 10:49:57 AM »

    Offline Nia

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Isn't it supposed to be 10x that of Earth's gravity?


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2014, 10:51:04 AM »

    Offline Umbrax

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Isn't it supposed to be 10x that of Earth's gravity?

That's what some people say, but I don't believe it. Proof.




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What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2014, 10:51:42 AM »

    Offline Bardock

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i think in the anime they mentioned it was 10 times earths gravity.
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What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2014, 10:52:41 AM »

    Offline Nia

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I'm fairly certain it was mentioned in the manga as well.
Too lazy to go and scan it though. XD


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2014, 10:53:55 AM »

    Offline Jak

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King Kai said it was 10x. He's basically a god. I hate to argue from authority but...

What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2014, 10:54:55 AM »

    Offline Inzane

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Yeah it's 10x. I remember him saying it. Plus I just read it on dragon ball wikia.

What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2014, 10:55:21 AM »

    Offline Kiyza

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Kaio's planet has a gravitational pull ten times that of Earth's, so it would be 10g. However, it's physically impossible for a planet to have a gravity of 10g. Long before that point, you'd reach the point where the planet in question would collapse into a star under the force of its own gravity. It's mostly pointless to ascribe any sort of real-world logic to Kaio's planet because something like that is physically impossible.

Edit: It can't be the same density and mass of Earth. The simple fact that it has such a small diameter should clue you in to that. In order to have that kind of gravity, it would need to have a very, very high mass (as gravity is proportional to mass), which means it would be extremely dense. But like I said, there's no way that something like that can actually exist because of a lot of different physical constraints.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 10:57:54 AM by Kiyza »


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What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2014, 10:58:02 AM »

    Offline Nia

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Yeah it's 10x. I remember him saying it. Plus I just read it on dragon ball wikia.
Just remember though, the Dragon Ball wiki is full of incorrect information and inconsistencies, since the majority of it's information is derived from the English dub.

That being said, I'm fairly certain it's canon information.

Kaio's planet has a gravitational pull ten times that of Earth's, so it would be 10g. However, it's physically impossible for a planet to have a gravity of 10g. Long before that point, you'd reach the point where the planet in question would collapse into a star under the force of its own gravity. It's mostly pointless to ascribe any sort of real-world logic to Kaio's planet because something like that is physically impossible.
Oh, come now. If Goku's hair can withstand 100x Earth's gravity without losing it's shape, then a tiny planet can handle 10x, right?

...R-right?

That's totally a realistic series.


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2014, 10:59:08 AM »

    Offline Bardock

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he says it at 4:42

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What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2014, 11:11:37 AM »

    Offline Umbrax

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Kaio's planet has a gravitational pull ten times that of Earth's, so it would be 10g. However, it's physically impossible for a planet to have a gravity of 10g. Long before that point, you'd reach the point where the planet in question would collapse into a star under the force of its own gravity. It's mostly pointless to ascribe any sort of real-world logic to Kaio's planet because something like that is physically impossible.

Edit: It can't be the same density and mass of Earth. The simple fact that it has such a small diameter should clue you in to that. In order to have that kind of gravity, it would need to have a very, very high mass (as gravity is proportional to mass), which means it would be extremely dense. But like I said, there's no way that something like that can actually exist because of a lot of different physical constraints.

Yes, I ran into that problem.

But I know King Kai's planet has a large mass and therefore density, but other than gravity, we have to try to apply atleast something to know how dense his planet is. If it's 10x Earth's gravity, it must have something over earth.

Goku's feat must be huge, then.

EDIT: Thanks Bardock.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2014, 11:14:04 AM by Umbrax »




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What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2014, 11:23:50 AM »

    Offline Kiyza

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Yes, I ran into that problem.

But I know King Kai's planet has a large mass and therefore density, but other than gravity, we have to try to apply atleast something to know how dense his planet is. If it's 10x Earth's gravity, it must have something over earth.

Goku's feat must be huge, then.

Without an actual measurement of the planet, it would be impossible to tell exactly how dense it is. There are things in the real world that can get that dense, like neutron stars, but they're a bit of a headache to explain and I don't know enough about them to really do it properly. Obviously, though, neutron stars are made of plasma, not solid matter, so it's questionable whether or not the same rules would apply.

If you ask me, it's probably best to not overthink this matter. You can't accurately calculate the planet's density without a measurement of its radius. While you could probably get its mass, I can guarantee you that the numbers wouldn't make that much sense.

It's also worth noting that this planet is in Dragon Ball's afterlife, which could affect just how it behaves. Considering it's from another dimension that doesn't seem to play by the same rules, (I mean, time is also really bizarre there, along with the way that energy conventionally works in the series) I don't think that even if we could come up with accurate numbers that they would actually mean anything because of the different variables at play here. I mean, there are artificial devices that can also crank the gravity up a few notches in this series, but they're not increasing the mass of anything. It's all pretty much science fantasy nonsense.


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What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2014, 11:34:41 AM »

    Offline Umbrax

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Without an actual measurement of the planet, it would be impossible to tell exactly how dense it is. There are things in the real world that can get that dense, like neutron stars, but they're a bit of a headache to explain and I don't know enough about them to really do it properly. Obviously, though, neutron stars are made of plasma, not solid matter, so it's questionable whether or not the same rules would apply.

If you ask me, it's probably best to not overthink this matter. You can't accurately calculate the planet's density without a measurement of its radius. While you could probably get its mass, I can guarantee you that the numbers wouldn't make that much sense.

It's also worth noting that this planet is in Dragon Ball's afterlife, which could affect just how it behaves. Considering it's from another dimension that doesn't seem to play by the same rules, (I mean, time is also really bizarre there, along with the way that energy conventionally works in the series) I don't think that even if we could come up with accurate numbers that they would actually mean anything because of the different variables at play here. I mean, there are artificial devices that can also crank the gravity up a few notches in this series, but they're not increasing the mass of anything. It's all pretty much science fantasy nonsense.

Yes, I understand this.

I actually just contacted my father, a science guy, on facebook to ask him "If Goku punched a room sized hole straight through Earth, how many tons will that be?"

He responded with, "About 1,000,000 tons." And with my calculations, that's correct.

Know we know if the Gravity's greater than Earth's, the mass and/or density is greater than earth's.

We also know that people can punch way harder than we can lift, and those are 2 different things.

An average fighter and kick with the force of about 2-3 THOUSAND pounds. Similar with boxers.

It that guy can bench about 300-350 pounds, that gives us a thing to go on.

If Goku punched a hole weighing ATLEAST 1 million, than we can use that scale to see how much SSJ3 Goku can lift.

I don't think SSJ3 Goku was trying at max to punch that hole, so it can potentially be a lot more.



Or I can be totally wrong, because Dragon Ball Logic.




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What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2014, 11:36:02 AM »

    Offline SSJGGoku

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10x Earth's gravity

Special thanks to Kaiza for this awesome sig!

What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2014, 11:46:16 AM »

    Offline Kiyza

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Yes, I understand this.

I actually just contacted my father, a science guy, on facebook to ask him "If Goku punched a room sized hole straight through Earth, how many tons will that be?"

He responded with, "About 1,000,000 tons." And with my calculations, that's correct.

Those numbers don't make any sense. 1,000,000 tons of what exactly? Are we talking PSI? I'd imagine a scientist would give the energy released in joules of energy. Does your father work for Nintendo too? Why no post some actual calculations?

Know we know if the Gravity's greater than Earth's, the mass and/or density is greater than earth's.

We also know that people can punch way harder than we can lift, and those are 2 different things.

An average fighter and kick with the force of about 2-3 THOUSAND pounds. Similar with boxers.

It that guy can bench about 300-350 pounds, that gives us a thing to go on.

If Goku punched a hole weighing ATLEAST 1 million, than we can use that scale to see how much SSJ3 Goku can lift.

I don't think SSJ3 Goku was trying at max to punch that hole, so it can potentially be a lot more.

In fiction, these sorts of things aren't necessarily one to one with the real world. To give an example from another series, Marvel's Iron Fist, a superhero who uses chi to fuel his punches, has knocked the helicarrier clean out of the sky with a hit from his fists... yet can't actually bench press more than 600 lbs.

Also, keep in mind that the velocity that something moves at has a substantial effect on the actual energy output of something. A drop of water moving at relativistic speeds could kill you, and that could very well explain the discrepancy between Goku's mediocre bench pressing and the actual impact of this particular punch. The speed of his punches affect how much force is being put out by them.


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What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2014, 11:55:40 AM »

    Offline Umbrax

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Those numbers don't make any sense. 1,000,000 tons of what exactly? Are we talking PSI? I'd imagine a scientist would give the energy released in joules of energy. Does your father work for Nintendo too? Why no post some actual calculations?

In fiction, these sorts of things aren't necessarily one to one with the real world. To give an example from another series, Marvel's Iron Fist, a superhero who uses chi to fuel his punches, has knocked the helicarrier clean out of the sky with a hit from his fists... yet can't actually bench press more than 600 lbs.

Also, keep in mind that the velocity that something moves at has a substantial effect on the actual energy output of something. A drop of water moving at relativistic speeds could kill you, and that could very well explain the discrepancy between Goku's mediocre bench pressing and the actual impact of this particular punch. The speed of his punches affect how much force is being put out by them.


Well first off, Iron Fist uses his Chi to makes his strength significantly higher. That, and he is a badass.

I never said he was a scientist, he has just been around and has studied and taken interest in Science for as long as I can remember. He is pretty knowledgeable. 1 Million Tons.

That's why Zoom is stated to be one of the most deadly and strongest characters in DC. He realizes punching people at light speed is going to hurt.... a lot.

That's the difference between him and the Flash.

Well, my rough calculations was taking earth's height, and weight first off. Then I get dimensions of a room sized sphere and then added earth's height to it.

You get earth's weight and density, then you take a chunk out of Earth with the Room sphere dimensions.




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What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2014, 12:35:20 PM »
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Well remember the factors. Supreme Kai summoned Katchin (I think its called) which was the most dense object in the universe and it wasn't gigantic (compared to king kais planet). So if in the dbz world you can have the most dense piece of metal and its only a 40m x 40m block then im sure king kais planet can have the density of something that would produce 10x gravity. I mean at the end of the day it boils down to it being DBZ logic and it doesn't make sense because they can introduce any type of material/ element / anything science related they want no matter how big or small.

What is actually the gravity of King Kai's planet?
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2014, 12:43:15 PM »

    Offline Umbrax

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Well remember the factors. Supreme Kai summoned Katchin (I think its called) which was the most dense object in the universe and it wasn't gigantic (compared to king kais planet). So if in the dbz world you can have the most dense piece of metal and its only a 40m x 40m block then im sure king kais planet can have the density of something that would produce 10x gravity. I mean at the end of the day it boils down to it being DBZ logic and it doesn't make sense because they can introduce any type of material/ element / anything science related they want no matter how big or small.

A dwarf star is TINY but is very dense.

We can compare King Kai's planet to Earth scientifically because we whatever Earth's density is, King Kai's planet is going to be more.




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