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Topic: -Suggestions and Ideas for the DBOR Team-  (Read 2136 times)

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-Suggestions and Ideas for the DBOR Team-
« on: January 11, 2016, 08:04:04 AM »
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(Hey everyone! You probably haven't seen me around, and that's because I signed up yesterday. Hopefully I get to know all of you better in the future.)

I found DBOR in 2014. Needless to say, I was extremely hyped at the time, just like many others. I found the site through the original Dragon Ball Online. I really wanted to play it, but before I could, it got shut down. So you can imagine how excited I was when I heard about this project. So, day after day, I visited this website, looking to see if it would become available soon. I eventually forgot about this at around the same time I got out of Dragonball.

Fast forward to today. A whole lot of progress has been made, yes, but still no closer to being released. I get it, developers need to eat too. They have sick days, and they have productive days, like us. I'm not blaming them about the game not being released, because it's not their fault. What I am blaming them for is the lack of information. We really haven't got to see their progress, and how the game is going along. Yes, they have got the Development Diary, and the Sneak Peak's and the teases, which do help and are a GREAT idea, but it really isn't enough. People are still upset and impatient.

Now I'm not one to complain without giving a suggestion, so I've prepared some ideas on how to restore hype to DBOR and keep everybody satisfied. (At least until the server launches.)

Suggestion #1: Weekly/Daily Updates

Problem: The problem with YouTube is that It's not practical for uploading things daily. You can't upload a development diary everyday, because it requires a lot of work. (Thumbnail, Rendering, Editing, etc.) Yes, big Youtubers such as Markiplier can upload daily, but it's because they have professionals helping them out with the process. You may also notice that these usually come a day later. Another reason they can't upload daily, is because they don't have a lot of work to show. This stuff takes a long time!

Solution: Create an Instagram/Vine account. Something in which the DBOR team can keep us updated with short videos that shows how you guys are doing. Briefly talk about the work that you've got done today/throughout the week. This takes care of a lot of the problems I said YouTube has. This entire process also doesn't require a ton of work to post, it could take the DBOR team a few minutes gathering footage and a script for the video.

Suggestion #2: Progress Bar

Problem: The DBOR team has been sheltered, to say the least, when it comes to the progress on DBOR. They really don't want to give us a definitive release date in fear of not meeting said release date. Totally understandable, completely. However, after a couple of years, it really starts to get people wondering, "When is it coming out?". And so far, we still don't know.

Solution: It's simple, really. Have a progress bar displaying a rough amount of how much work has been done, and how much work needs to be done. I've noticed this from a couple of other projects such as http://oot-2d.com/. Quickly that check out, and tell me, is this a good idea or what? The only real "problem" I can see arising from this is the lack of progress. Instead of being something to extinguish the fire that is impatience, it could just be more fuel. People might get mad at the fact that the progress bar hasn't moved in the last month. Overall though, not a bad idea.

Suggestion #3: Public Alpha/Beta

Problem: People lose faith in this project ever becoming a reality. It's to be expected, after all, it has been a few years. So, how do you keep the hype train going up until release?

Solution:
Two Words. Scheduled Testing. We should have a date every month or so in which players can download the client, and join the server for testing. Not only does this keep people excited as dung beetles on poop, but it also helps the DBOR team out with any bugs that they may be concerned about. They could also use the huge amount of people joining for stress testing and other stuff.

In conclusion, there is no good reason for the DBOR team not implementing any of these stuff. They're all, for the most part, efficient, and simple in keeping the faith of people on this board. So what's holding you guys up? I taught you how to walk, but you've got to teach yourself how to fly.

-Sincerely, A fan of DBOR.



« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 06:31:49 AM by TheSolidSnakeX »

-Suggestions and Ideas for the DBOR Team-
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2016, 11:49:07 AM »
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These things take a lot of time. You also have to remember that the DBOR team isn't being paid to do any of this.

-Suggestions and Ideas for the DBOR Team-
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2016, 12:28:58 PM »

    Offline SantiHN

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Where have I seen this before?

-Suggestions and Ideas for the DBOR Team-
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2016, 12:34:01 PM »
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These things take a lot of time. You also have to remember that the DBOR team isn't being paid to do any of this.

What takes a lot of time? Can you be more specific? If you're implying that creating the game takes a lot of time, then yes, I fully agree with you! I'm not telling anyone to hurry up. But if you're implying that any of these features take time, then no, you're absolutely wrong. All of these suggestion except maybe the last one are relatively easy, and quick to do. It doesn't take hours to create a social media account, now does it?

I understand they aren't being paid, but that isn't a reason to not keep us informed. All of these suggestions are optional, not mandatory.

-Suggestions and Ideas for the DBOR Team-
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2016, 02:58:35 PM »

    Offline Kiyza

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(Hey everyone! You probably haven't seen me around, and that's because I signed up yesterday. Hopefully I get to know all of you better in the future.)

Well I'm inclined to like anyone who likes Solid Snake by default, so I'm sure we'll get along just fine if nothing else.

Suggestion #1: Weekly/Daily Updates

Problem: The problem with YouTube is that It's not practical for uploading things daily. You can't upload a development diary everyday, because it requires a lot of work. (Thumbnail, Rendering, Editing, etc.) Yes, big Youtubers such as Markiplier can upload daily, but it's because they have professionals helping them out with the process. You may also notice that these usually come a day later. Another reason they can't upload daily, is because they don't have a lot of work to show. This stuff takes a long time!

Solution: Create an Instagram/Vine account. Something in which the DBOR team can keep us updated with short videos that shows how you guys are doing. Briefly talk about the work that you've got done today/throughout the week. This takes care of a lot of the problems I said YouTube has. This entire process also doesn't require a ton of work to post, it could take the DBOR team a few minutes gathering footage and a script for the video.

Editing and probably narrating a short video is more of a pain in the ass than most people suspect if they want it to be professional. Expecting someone to do that on a daily or even weekly basis is a bit much for a small development team. Not to mention, it also takes time and resources away from actually developing the game, unless they were to get a dedicated PR or video person to do this. It doesn't actually take a few minutes. The whole process of making a decent clip is more like hours if you're not uploading the livestream of your trashy let's play.

If they managed to get a person on the team who was just dedicated to making videos and presenting the game's development, doing something like this monthly or biweekly would be a more reasonable request. As it stands, though, I think resources should be devoted to making the game and giving updates when significant progress is made. On top of that, a lot of what's going to go into development is ultimately going to be underwhelming to someone who's not a game developer since it might not be visual, and if it's not visual, then it's not going to leave an impact on the audience.

Suggestion #2: Progress Bar

Problem: The DBOR team has been sheltered, to say the least, when it comes to the progress on DBOR. They really don't want to give us a definitive release date in fear of not meeting said release date. Totally understandable, completely. However, after a couple of years, it really starts to get people wondering, "When is it coming out?". And so far, we still don't know.

Solution: It's simple, really. Have a progress bar displaying a rough amount of how much work has been done, and how much work needs to be done. I've noticed this from a couple of other projects such as http://oot-2d.com/. Quickly that check out, and tell me, is this a good idea or what? The only real "problem" I can see arising from this is the lack of progress. Instead of being something to extinguish the fire that is impatience, it could just be more fuel. People might get mad at the fact that the progress bar hasn't moved in the last month. Overall though, not a bad idea.

There are a couple of problems with this. On top of what you pointed out, it's difficult to tell what percentage of the game is actually done, largely because this game is going to add rebalances and possibly additional content after launch. Not to mention, bug fixes take time. The real issue, however, is going to come when the game reaches something like 95% on the progress bar. Since a lot of MMORPGs are released in what's essentially an incomplete state, you'd end up with a lot of people whining and asking when they can play the game, since it's mostly done. I'd rather the dev teams avoided this and just released the game quietly when it's ready.

Suggestion #3: Public Alpha/Beta

Problem: People lose faith in this project ever becoming a reality. It's to be expected, after all, it has been a few years. So, how do you keep the hype train going up until release?

Solution:
Two Words. Scheduled Testing. We should have a date every month or so in which players can download the client, and join the server for testing. Not only does this keep people excited as dung beetles on poop, but it also helps the DBOR team out with any bugs that they may be concerned about. They could also use the huge amount of people joining for stress testing and other stuff.

Early access is not necessarily a good thing. While it gives people who are really antsy to play the game an opportunity to play it, the fact that the game is incomplete and flawed is liable to leave a bad taste in their mouths, which is just a reason for them to never continue playing the game.

If you want a few good recent examples of this, take a look at early impressions of Destiny. The game was ambitious, but it was heavily criticized upon release. Several updates later and whether or not people think it's a good game seems to depend on whether or not it suits their tastes. A lot of discussion about Street Fighter V is also centered around how underwhelming the betas were, despite the fact that they existed only to help balance the game before launch.

In conclusion, there is no good reason for the DBOR team not implementing any of these stuff. They're all, for the most part, efficient, and simple in keeping the faith of people on this board. So what's holding you guys up? I taught you how to walk, but you've got to teach yourself how to fly.

-Sincerely, A fan of DBOR.

Protip: There are give or take five people on this board who will actually read your rants if you make a long, thought-out post like this in the future, so there's no point in bolding part of it to draw attention to the ending paragraph.


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-Suggestions and Ideas for the DBOR Team-
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2016, 03:43:01 PM »
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(Hey everyone! You probably haven't seen me around, and that's because I signed up yesterday. Hopefully I get to know all of you better in the future.)

I found DBOR in 2014. Needless to say, I was extremely hyped at the time, just like many others. I found the site through the original Dragon Ball Online. I really wanted to play it, but before I could, it got shut down. So you can imagine how excited I was when I heard about this project. So, day after day, I visited this website, looking to see if it would become available soon. I eventually forgot about this at around the same time I got out of Dragonball.

Fast forward to today. A whole lot of progress has been made, yes, but still no closer to being released. I get it, developers need to eat too. They have sick days, and they have productive days, like us. I'm not blaming them about the game not being released, because it's not their fault. What I am blaming them for is the lack of information. We really haven't got to see their progress, and how the game is going along. Yes, they have got the Development Diary, and the Sneak Peak's and the teases, which do help and are a GREAT idea, but it really isn't enough. People are still upset and impatient.

Now I'm not one to complain without giving a suggestion, so I've prepared some ideas on how to restore hype to DBOR and keep everybody satisfied. (At least until the server launches.)

Suggestion #1: Weekly/Daily Updates

Problem: The problem with YouTube is that It's not practical for uploading things daily. You can't upload a development diary everyday, because it requires a lot of work. (Thumbnail, Rendering, Editing, etc.) Yes, big Youtubers such as Markiplier can upload daily, but it's because they have professionals helping them out with the process. You may also notice that these usually come a day later. Another reason they can't upload daily, is because they don't have a lot of work to show. This stuff takes a long time!

Solution: Create an Instagram/Vine account. Something in which the DBOR team can keep us updated with short videos that shows how you guys are doing. Briefly talk about the work that you've got done today/throughout the week. This takes care of a lot of the problems I said YouTube has. This entire process also doesn't require a ton of work to post, it could take the DBOR team a few minutes gathering footage and a script for the video.

Suggestion #2: Progress Bar

Problem: The DBOR team has been sheltered, to say the least, when it comes to the progress on DBOR. They really don't want to give us a definitive release date in fear of not meeting said release date. Totally understandable, completely. However, after a couple of years, it really starts to get people wondering, "When is it coming out?". And so far, we still don't know.

Solution: It's simple, really. Have a progress bar displaying a rough amount of how much work has been done, and how much work needs to be done. I've noticed this from a couple of other projects such as http://oot-2d.com/. Quickly that check out, and tell me, is this a good idea or what? The only real "problem" I can see arising from this is the lack of progress. Instead of being something to extinguish the fire that is impatience, it could just be more fuel. People might get mad at the fact that the progress bar hasn't moved in the last month. Overall though, not a bad idea.

Suggestion #3: Public Alpha/Beta

Problem: People lose faith in this project ever becoming a reality. It's to be expected, after all, it has been a few years. So, how do you keep the hype train going up until release?

Solution:
Two Words. Scheduled Testing. We should have a date every month or so in which players can download the client, and join the server for testing. Not only does this keep people excited as dung beetles on poop, but it also helps the DBOR team out with any bugs that they may be concerned about. They could also use the huge amount of people joining for stress testing and other stuff.

In conclusion, there is no good reason for the DBOR team not implementing any of these stuff. They're all, for the most part, efficient, and simple in keeping the faith of people on this board. So what's holding you guys up? I taught you how to walk, but you've got to teach yourself how to fly.

-Sincerely, A fan of DBOR.


Your similes and metaphors dazzle me,


I support everything you say..It's better to have a voice than to be silent, ya'know!  ;)

You have my respect

                            

-Suggestions and Ideas for the DBOR Team-
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2016, 05:08:09 PM »

    Offline Tofu

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First of all: Welcome to the forums, have a nice time here. :D

About the recommendations: I can't agree more with @Kiyza but I'll just add some stuff to what she said.

Editing and probably narrating a short video is more of a pain in the ass than most people suspect if they want it to be professional. Expecting someone to do that on a daily or even weekly basis is a bit much for a small development team. Not to mention, it also takes time and resources away from actually developing the game, unless they were to get a dedicated PR or video person to do this. It doesn't actually take a few minutes. The whole process of making a decent clip is more like hours if you're not uploading the livestream of your trashy let's play.

If they managed to get a person on the team who was just dedicated to making videos and presenting the game's development, doing something like this monthly or biweekly would be a more reasonable request. As it stands, though, I think resources should be devoted to making the game and giving updates when significant progress is made. On top of that, a lot of what's going to go into development is ultimately going to be underwhelming to someone who's not a game developer since it might not be visual, and if it's not visual, then it's not going to leave an impact on the audience.

It definitively takes hours of work for short videos if you want a good result. I've worked with video editing and stuff. Not a pro at it or anything like that but I got enough experience to do stuff like what I think you're trying to say, @TheSolidSnakeX. Last time I did a video for a college project about a year and half ago, it took me about 7 hours (maybe more, I honestly can't remember) between the ideas for the scenes I had to record, recording the scenes, importing it from my sister's camera to my laptop and finally doing the whole thing on After Effects. After that, I just had to do the 4-hour render that burned some stuff on my laptop (note that my laptop isn't made for these kinds of stuff) and made me take it to tech support. The worst part? The video lasted like 1 minute and 30 secs if I recall correctly. It had a lot of videos running on the screen at the same time, that's why the render took so long.

Not saying your idea is stupid or anything like that. I just gotta point out how much hard work it is for a team as small as this, which isn't getting paid for doing all this work. Not sure if you're experienced in the area but as a graphic designer, I've found a lot of people that say stuff like "Just do me a quick logo for my company" like if it was an easy thing since they don't really know how much work all these stuff take.

There are a couple of problems with this. On top of what you pointed out, it's difficult to tell what percentage of the game is actually done, largely because this game is going to add rebalances and possibly additional content after launch. Not to mention, bug fixes take time. The real issue, however, is going to come when the game reaches something like 95% on the progress bar. Since a lot of MMORPGs are released in what's essentially an incomplete state, you'd end up with a lot of people whining and asking when they can play the game, since it's mostly done. I'd rather the dev teams avoided this and just released the game quietly when it's ready.

Another thing about a progress bar is that it gives some sort of indirect release date. They give no dates, but the bar is at 85%. That means the game must be close to a release, right? Then speculation start, people saying random dates. I'm not game maker and got little to no knowledge about it but from what I know, the last part of a game's development is usually the longest. At that point, the final tests start and bugs start showing up. Lots and lots of bugs, which usually take longer to fix after you already moved past that part of the game thinking it was working fine.

I repeat myself: I got little to no knowledge about game-making and I'm aware that what I'm saying might be totally wrong. All I just said is based on what a lifelong friend (who is currently studying game design at Full Sail University) has told me.

Early access is not necessarily a good thing. While it gives people who are really antsy to play the game an opportunity to play it, the fact that the game is incomplete and flawed is liable to leave a bad taste in their mouths, which is just a reason for them to never continue playing the game.

If you want a few good recent examples of this, take a look at early impressions of Destiny. The game was ambitious, but it was heavily criticized upon release. Several updates later and whether or not people think it's a good game seems to depend on whether or not it suits their tastes. A lot of discussion about Street Fighter V is also centered around how underwhelming the betas were, despite the fact that they existed only to help balance the game before launch.

Another example is DBOGlobal (which is a similar project to DBOR but I won't go into much detail about it). I might start a whole war in your thread for mentioning this but it's my personal experience and it's quite related to this project:

I tried out DBOG's open alpha weekend and it was un-freaking-playable. As soon as I logged in, the server crashed and even the few times it stayed up, there were so many glitches that I didn't feel like I was playing a game. I was just trying the movement and punching functions in the game, killing random monsters. Nothing else worked, except for a few quests that consisted of killing a certain amount of monsters.

My idea is not to start a whole discussion about whether DBOG is a good game or not (and if someone does, please ignore him for going off-topic). Some people didn't have problems, some did. This is just my personal experience and I'm sharing it to point out how a badly-developed alpha/beta can leave a bad experience. I, personally, am still debating if I will ever play DBOG after having such a bad time. Right now, the only reason I'd play it, is to have fun with the friends I've made on these forums.

That's all I had to add to Kiyza's post. Don't take any of this personal or as a "your ideas are stupid" because that's not the intention. I just want to point our how complicated it could be and a good reason why the team isn't doing any of this. I bet they've already thought about all of this before.

Thanks for reading. :)
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-Suggestions and Ideas for the DBOR Team-
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2016, 07:21:10 PM »

    Offline Komatsuna

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I'm glad i read this post. This is actually the first time i have seen decent suggestions. I would like these suggestions to be added. (but take your time devs, i'm not saying you have to do this right now.)
Welcome to the forums BTW  ^-^

Perfect... another one of those guys.

-Suggestions and Ideas for the DBOR Team-
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2016, 06:56:08 AM »
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Thanks for the replies everyone! I've read all the posts, but I can't reply to every one of them right now, so I'll address some of them:

Footage:

First off, upon second thought, I can see how long a video update could take. Furthermore, I think you guys are misinterpreting what I was trying to get across. I was imaging someone like Dumke recording some footage of him in the world, quickly going over some stuff that the development team has accomplished. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesn't sound like too much work, does it? I don't think it does. Then again, what do I know?  :-\

Alpha/Beta Testing:

I understand where you guys are coming from. A bad test can leave a bad taste. But, sometimes, when done right, the testing goes extremely well for both parties. I'm going to leave this one up to the DBOR crew, as it's their decision. I am aware of DBOG, and how their beta testing was like Pirates Of The Caribbean; disappointing. But I feel if the DBOR team can pull this off, maybe with extensive planning IF the team is willing to put in the effort, then it'd turn out great.

Progress Bar:

I am a would-be game developer, so I know a little when it comes to this stuff. I thought the dev team could provide and estimate on the current progress of the game, but you guys seem to disagree a tad bit. Either way, it's their choice; nobody is forcing them to do any of these suggestions.

Now what I'd really like to see is an official response. That would make my day  :)




-Suggestions and Ideas for the DBOR Team-
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2016, 04:08:40 PM »

    Offline Tempest

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I've finally gotten around to reading this thread, and I'll let you know why the suggestions you posted aren't exactly viable.

When it comes to video updates, dumke (the leader of the project) does give video updates, and does frequently update the community....when there is something to update. Right now, the team is small, and most of them have busy lives and other commitments. They have been working on the game but only when they can. Trust me, when there is something to update the community on, the community will be informed ASAP. Before there was weekly updates but they slowed down because the 3 developers working on the game had become busy with their daily lives. If you want video updates, go on the main homepage and look at past updates.

When it comes to Alpha/Beta testing, there will be a period when it will happen, but that will only be when they need people to test the game in terms of bugs, server capabilities/population, etc. DBO G was an absolute mess. Take this from a player of DBO who played when dragonball Taiwan first was released - it isn't fun running around an empty map, not being able to level up, quest, use the proper skills, and playing the game like you were suppose to. DBO G was just an empty shell, people got bored and thought that was all the game had to offer. It was terrible, and gave people a bad idea of what the game was all about. I'm sure you are eager to play the game like everyone else, but trust me when I say this, you want to play the game when it's close to completion. Not an empty buggy version that is not enjoyable at all.

With the progress bar idea, as previously mentioned in this thread, it wouldn't give a clear accurate representation of where the game is at. The game has different levels of progress, such as development and translation working at different speeds. As you said in your original post, the team doesn't want to meet deadlines. And there is a perfectly good reason for that: the team is unsure themselves. Things are constantly changing, and like I said before, the developers working on DBO R have their own daily lives to focus on.

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« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2016, 04:55:52 AM »

    Offline Shyruni

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Thanks for the replies everyone! I've read all the posts, but I can't reply to every one of them right now, so I'll address some of them:

Footage:

First off, upon second thought, I can see how long a video update could take. Furthermore, I think you guys are misinterpreting what I was trying to get across. I was imaging someone like Dumke recording some footage of him in the world, quickly going over some stuff that the development team has accomplished. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but that doesn't sound like too much work, does it? I don't think it does. Then again, what do I know?  :-\

Alpha/Beta Testing:

I understand where you guys are coming from. A bad test can leave a bad taste. But, sometimes, when done right, the testing goes extremely well for both parties. I'm going to leave this one up to the DBOR crew, as it's their decision. I am aware of DBOG, and how their beta testing was like Pirates Of The Caribbean; disappointing. But I feel if the DBOR team can pull this off, maybe with extensive planning IF the team is willing to put in the effort, then it'd turn out great.

Progress Bar:

I am a would-be game developer, so I know a little when it comes to this stuff. I thought the dev team could provide and estimate on the current progress of the game, but you guys seem to disagree a tad bit. Either way, it's their choice; nobody is forcing them to do any of these suggestions.

Now what I'd really like to see is an official response. That would make my day  :)

Like Tempest said, the biggest issue with a lot of these is that the team is both really small and really busy.  As a mod once explained to me, the team gave expectations they weren't able to meet, so they're waiting to give information until the product meets what they're looking for.  When a significant update to the game occurs, info will be released about it, the team has just had a really rough year.

I have to give props to you though, you put thought into your suggestions and tried to be polite with them.  I'm not mod, but it's really nice to see suggestions like this, especially since most suggestions are like "give us beta now plz", or "hurry up the game you noobz".  As a member of the community, I appreciate the well-made feedback.

 :peace:
We WILL Protect the Peace!

-Suggestions and Ideas for the DBOR Team-
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2016, 06:52:47 AM »
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Yes! Somebody bumped this thread!

Like Tempest said, the biggest issue with a lot of these is that the team is both really small and really busy.  As a mod once explained to me, the team gave expectations they weren't able to meet, so they're waiting to give information until the product meets what they're looking for.  When a significant update to the game occurs, info will be released about it, the team has just had a really rough year.

I have to give props to you though, you put thought into your suggestions and tried to be polite with them.  I'm not mod, but it's really nice to see suggestions like this, especially since most suggestions are like "give us beta now plz", or "hurry up the game you noobz".  As a member of the community, I appreciate the well-made feedback.

 :peace:

Thanks man, all these compliments mean so much to me! And even though I disagree that the DBOR team can't muster the time to attempt one of these suggestions, I still understand where you're coming from.