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Topic: DBZ Fan Animation  (Read 3363 times)

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DBZ Fan Animation
« on: December 15, 2015, 01:36:22 AM »

    Offline Acaryus

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One of the best fan animations i've seen so far.. Especially the Vegetto fight scene.
<src="">
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 02:35:51 AM by Acaryus »
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DBZ Fan Animation
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2015, 02:53:44 AM »

    Offline Roxas

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I would actually watch this !

Didnt your parents tell you not to play with me? Youll get burned.

DBZ Fan Animation
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2015, 02:57:34 AM »

    Offline Shyruni

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Not a bad trailer in terms of animation, actually rather impressive.  But in terms of an actual trailer, I think it's really not that interesting.

I'm also a little bit annoyed by the idea of Vegetto, as it has been made very clear in the movies that they never want to fuse again, which is an idea I find interesting.  To throw that out the window seems really dumb to me.  Of course, this is just a fan trailer, I just can't help but be concerned that Super will actually try to bring him back -. -'.

Other than my minor gripes though, it's pretty well animated for a fan trailer.
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DBZ Fan Animation
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2016, 04:25:53 AM »

    Offline LucioDbz

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DBZ Fan Animation
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2016, 05:22:08 AM »

    Offline Kiretto

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Well looking at how the actual DBS is drawn and animated, this could pass as official.
#DBSmadeinFlash

DBZ Fan Animation
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2016, 07:17:57 AM »

    Offline Tofu

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I'm curious as to why they used the FUNImation dub. People usually use the original Japanese voices when they do things like this.

About the animation itself, it looks quite nice in some aspects. The turns are pretty good and look semi-3D and all but there were some moments where faces made some weird deformations like Goku's eyebrows when he yelled at Gohan, for example.

Still, a really good animation overall. Definitively a million times better than whatever I could even dream of doing. The only big "problem" (and I add the quotation marks since it's not really a problem) I can see in it is that the style differs a lot from classic anime and looks a lot more western when it comes to animation and coloring.

About the first video, I remember writing a reply or something. Maybe I didn't post it because of the fact that Shyruni basically said all I had to say about it. :P
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DBZ Fan Animation
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2016, 02:02:10 PM »

    Offline Kiyza

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I'm curious as to why they used the FUNImation dub. People usually use the original Japanese voices when they do things like this.

Some people like the FUNimation dub. It's as simple as that.

About the animation itself, it looks quite nice in some aspects. The turns are pretty good and look semi-3D and all but there were some moments where faces made some weird deformations like Goku's eyebrows when he yelled at Gohan, for example.

Still, a really good animation overall. Definitively a million times better than whatever I could even dream of doing. The only big "problem" (and I add the quotation marks since it's not really a problem) I can see in it is that the style differs a lot from classic anime and looks a lot more western when it comes to animation and coloring.

I was going to mention this myself, but I stopped in the middle of it because I got distracted.

The reason this fan animation doesn't have that "classic anime" feel to it is because of the fluidity of the animation. Anime, in general, is made on a low budget and hand drawn, so it has slightly more of a "clipshow" feeling to it than computer generated animation. Western cartoons are usually a bit more fluid than anime, but anime tends to use this to its advantage. Its choppiness can be utilized well in action scenes because having fewer frames of animation can make something feel faster or like it has more impact if it's done properly. American action series also tend to have choppier animation as well. There are a handful of anime that don't have this choppiness to them, but they're usually theatrical films, like Akira.

Replicating the "feel" of anime in CGI is a pain in the ass because CGI, by its very nature, is fluid and anime is not. Also, the art style of most anime is "flat", making it very difficult to replicate that aesthetic in CGI without some very good cel shading. For instance, video games usually default to 3D models in this day and age and as a result, those video games with an anime aesthetic often struggle to replicate the actual appearance of anime. It's plagued almost every Dragon Ball game to date. Games that look "anime" sometimes have character high resolution sprites for character portraits during dialogue scenes, like the Fire Emblem series, but resort to 3D models for a lot of other things, but the models tend to look like garbage. 2D fighting games with an anime aesthetic, like the BlazBlue series, will almost always use high resolution sprites to recreate the choppiness and impact that comes along with the art style, though they're usually niche titles outside of Japan. Outside of that, cel shading usually comes into play if you want to make something 3D look anime, or even like a western cartoon.

I've actually only seen CGI replicate the style of anime in an actual anime twice -- the openings for the anime adaptation of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, and various endings for some Precure series. Even then, it's pretty imperfect in the latter's case and I've seen video games do a much better job getting the "anime" aesthetic down, like a bunch of Tales games and Ni no Kuni.

If anyone is curious as to how this is actually done, here's a breakdown of the hell that the character animators for the game Guilty Gear Xrd went through to achieve its anime looking CGI models.


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DBZ Fan Animation
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2016, 03:50:47 PM »

    Offline Nia

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Some people like the FUNimation dub. It's as simple as that.

I was going to mention this myself, but I stopped in the middle of it because I got distracted.

The reason this fan animation doesn't have that "classic anime" feel to it is because of the fluidity of the animation. Anime, in general, is made on a low budget and hand drawn, so it has slightly more of a "clipshow" feeling to it than computer generated animation. Western cartoons are usually a bit more fluid than anime, but anime tends to use this to its advantage. Its choppiness can be utilized well in action scenes because having fewer frames of animation can make something feel faster or like it has more impact if it's done properly. American action series also tend to have choppier animation as well. There are a handful of anime that don't have this choppiness to them, but they're usually theatrical films, like Akira.

Replicating the "feel" of anime in CGI is a pain in the ass because CGI, by its very nature, is fluid and anime is not. Also, the art style of most anime is "flat", making it very difficult to replicate that aesthetic in CGI without some very good cel shading. For instance, video games usually default to 3D models in this day and age and as a result, those video games with an anime aesthetic often struggle to replicate the actual appearance of anime. It's plagued almost every Dragon Ball game to date. Games that look "anime" sometimes have character high resolution sprites for character portraits during dialogue scenes, like the Fire Emblem series, but resort to 3D models for a lot of other things, but the models tend to look like garbage. 2D fighting games with an anime aesthetic, like the BlazBlue series, will almost always use high resolution sprites to recreate the choppiness and impact that comes along with the art style, though they're usually niche titles outside of Japan. Outside of that, cel shading usually comes into play if you want to make something 3D look anime, or even like a western cartoon.

I've actually only seen CGI replicate the style of anime in an actual anime twice -- the openings for the anime adaptation of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, and various endings for some Precure series. Even then, it's pretty imperfect in the latter's case and I've seen video games do a much better job getting the "anime" aesthetic down, like a bunch of Tales games and Ni no Kuni.

If anyone is curious as to how this is actually done, here's a breakdown of the hell that the character animators for the game Guilty Gear Xrd went through to achieve its anime looking CGI models.
Almost every DBZ game.

Meanwhile, in 2008...
[video loop=false autoplay=false width=640 height=480]http://i.imgur.com/2fybadH.webm[/video]
[video loop=false autoplay=false width=640 height=480]http://i.imgur.com/14mY667.webm[/video]


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

DBZ Fan Animation
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2016, 06:39:11 PM »

    Offline Jorge

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I'm curious as to why they used the FUNImation dub. People usually use the original Japanese voices when they do things like this.

In short, the Japanese version is utter shit. Why would you want to listen to something you can't understand?

I thoroughly enjoyed the English versions!
Enjoying the ride?

DBZ Fan Animation
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2016, 03:41:43 AM »

    Offline Nia

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In short, the Japanese version is utter shit. Why would you want to listen to something you can't understand?

I thoroughly enjoyed the English versions!

Why listen to something that still gets the basic character personalities wrong, and uses voices that don't fit the characters?
Hell, most of the FUNI dub fanboys hate the Kai dub (which the video above used, for the record). And mind you, Kai is a lot closer to the source material than the terrible Z dub (though, frankly, it still takes far too many liberties for my taste).

In fact, the only one who actually seems to understand the character they're voicing is Chris Ayres (Freeza), and even some of his lines were written liberally from the source material (though, they at least sounded in character, which is more than I can say about Goku).
It doesn't help that the directing is amateur at best (again, outside of Freeza).

Even if I can't speak Japanese, the voice acting itself is of a much higher quality, and the voices don't sound completely out of character (and I'm fully expecting someone to try referencing Goku's Japanese voice, and trying to apply that to the entire cast, even though... yes, Goku is actually supposed to sound like a little kid with a hick accent instead of a constipated gorilla).

I'm sure since I foolishly replied to this, it'll inevitably cause another sub vs. dub debate, but frankly, the FUNImation dub of Dragon Ball is still one of the most heinous abominations that outright insults the source material I've ever seen.
There are good voice actors in it, but a good chunk of them are force-fed idiotic garbage lines, the better chunk of them are miscast, and the director is one of the most shamefullly bad directors in dub history, even in the far superior Kai dub. It doesn't help that Sean Schemmel (Goku), is an arrogant asshole who attacks his own fanbase.


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

DBZ Fan Animation
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2016, 05:47:10 AM »

    Offline Kiyza

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If I can address why these sorts of fan projects are usually done with Japanese audio, it probably has to do with two factors. The first is that a lot of Dragon Ball fans simply aren't American and therefore have no exposure to the FUNimation dub. People have watched it in their own language or in Japanese. The second has to do with the sort of groupthink that happens online with the series. Since the FUNimation dub makes loads and loads of mistakes in "translation" (it's really more like an Americanization in some respects, as I discussed a long time ago), when discussing the series online, people will generally talk about the Japanese version of the series, since it's the original version.

Subtitled Japanese is usually the "standard" among weaboos and otaku core anime fans anyway because they want internal consistency in discussions and the subs are almost always available way before the dubs. Elitism about this unspoken rule is commonplace when it comes to most series, especially ones with bad English dubs (though these are very rare today with improvements in translation, catering to the weaboo audience, and the effective death of 4Kids).

@Nia: Do you really have to be that rude every time someone mentions that they prefer Dragon Ball in a language that isn't English? Mockery just makes people who like the series in Japanese look like asshole elitists even though that's often true. I also find it unlikely that it's the worst dub you're aware of. 4Kids' dubs are the golden standard of bad, and even those pale in comparison to almost ever dub before the anime boom of the mid '90s, like Mach GoGoGo Speed Racer, Macross Robotech, and GoLion Voltron. Notice a pattern here?

@Jorge: There are usually subtitles so you can understand it, and as Nia mentioned, sometimes the voice acting is just better. There's also the fact that some people are just more accustomed to the series in question in Japanese. If you've watched or played something before there was even an English dub, a lot of people are probably going to set the audio to Japanese for familiarity's sake.

For instance, various video games (and anime adaptations of them) developed by Type-Moon Studios had cult followings long before anything got dubbed into English. Some niche and cult Japanese games flat out don't have English dubs due to exports being low budget. It used to be the standard for the fighting game genre because of the minimal dialogue, up until around 2008 (Brawl, BlazBlue, and Street Fighter IV were the major mold-breakers), even though Gameboy Advance games like Tales of Phantasia were getting full English dubs. Shit, there were games released in America last year that didn't have English audio, like Under Night: In-Birth.

On the anime side of things, dubs usually take somewhere in the ballpark of half a year or more to actually come out, since you have to go through licensing, translation, and hiring actors first. Fansubs are usually out within a week because of the dedicated NEETs fans that learned Japanese partially for that purpose. Though there are exceptions, like Space Dandy and the Italian dub (and only the Italian dub) of the current Lupin III series, a lot of people are too impatient for that and want to watch it immediately. On top of that, a lot of niche series (and even some popular ones made for different demographics) simply do not have English dubs. If you want to watch most of the Precure series, the Japanese version is your only option, probably because it's targeted toward a demographic that hasn't reached puberty while most people who like Japanese entertainment are in the late teens or later now. On top of that, if you want to watch live-action entertainment from Japan, like a number of kaiju films or the rest of the tokusatsu genre, subtitles are your only option.


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DBZ Fan Animation
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2016, 06:12:07 AM »

    Offline Tofu

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In short, the Japanese version is utter shit. Why would you want to listen to something you can't understand?

I thoroughly enjoyed the English versions!

Oh no you didn't!

I didn't even read Nia's or Kiyza's replies but I know Nia defends with his life the Japanese version of the anime and hates FUNImation's work. I'm quite sure you've been on the forums long enough to be aware of this. :P

I, personally, don't hate the FUNImation dub when it comes to voice actors. Sure, there's some voices that are just wrong but most of them I find them tolerable. The thing I don't like about the FUNImation work is how much they changed the source material, making Goku a completely different character.

I grew up with the Latin American dub and eventually met the English dubs through the games and a about 10 or so episodes I watched but couldn't stand due to being used to the Latin American voices. Finally, with Battle of the Gods, I met the Japanese voices and I gotta say that FUNImation did the worst job out of the three. Unlike Nia, I can't say it sucks and it's terrible or that the whole team should be shot to death but I gotta admit it's not as good due to the huge change they made to the main character and some voices that makes me wonder "What were they thinking?"
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 06:18:06 AM by Tofu »
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DBZ Fan Animation
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2016, 06:28:14 AM »

    Offline Nia

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@Nia: Do you really have to be that rude every time someone mentions that they prefer Dragon Ball in a language that isn't English? Mockery just makes people who like the series in Japanese look like asshole elitists even though that's often true. I also find it unlikely that it's the worst dub you're aware of. 4Kids' dubs are the golden standard of bad, and even those pale in comparison to almost ever dub before the anime boom of the mid '90s, like Mach GoGoGo Speed Racer, Macross Robotech, and GoLion Voltron. Notice a pattern here?

Yes, I absolutely do.
Okay, so I don't, and I do tend to exaggerate.
But let's be honest, FUNImation's dub of DBZ IS a 4Kids' dub (they're even both owned by the same company, frequently share the same voice actors, and FUNI Kai's non-Toonami TV airings are even thrown in with other 4Kids' dubs). It has all the same cliches: renaming characters and abilities to Americanized versions, removing references to death and the afterlife (to the point where they STILL call the afterlife "Otherworld" as though it's a location rather than a plane of existence), injecting lame jokes, etc.
And to further point out something... FUNImation has redubbed Dragon Ball Z how many times? There's the TV/Single DVD dub. There's the Orange Brick dub. There's the Dragon Box dub. There's the Kai dub. Yet, they STILL haven't gotten it right.

However, it gets old when every single FUNImation fan can't do the same you're asking of me and have to attack the Japanese version under the excuse that "Everyone (read: Goku) has a high-pitched voice!" or "I don't know Japanese, so why would I watch it?" and the like.

And I'm not even saying a person can't like the dub (I swear, everyone assumes that I'm saying a person can't watch the dub... hell, I still enjoy the Ocean dub, and it has the same god awful script writing). I'm just sick of them acting like it's the Holy Grail, and attacking the Japanese version without cause, and being unable to even back up their claims.
And let's be fair... I at least give credit where it's due to the dub, which is more than I can say about the FUNI fans who trash the Japanese version.

I'm not being an elitist who says sub>dub in every instance. But in the case of Dragon Ball? I will defend the Japanese version to the death over the joke of a "dub" FUNImation continues to crap out, especially when someone decides to proclaim "the Japanese version is utter shit."
Hell, when it comes to those first three movies, again... I can barely watch them in Japanese because the Ocean dubs were so damn well done (they did have flaws, mind you).

I wouldn't call the FUNImation dub of Dragon Ball garbage if it wasn't garbage. At least with the Ocean dub (excluding the superb dub of the first three movies, as per the usual...), you could appreciate the audio and acting quality, and (mostly) well chosen voices.

Let me put it this way... I'll stop being rude, when the FUNI fans stop being rude. Isn't that fair?

Oh no you didn't!

I didn't even read Nia's or Kiyza's replies but I know Nia defends with his life the Japanese version of the anime and hates FUNImation's work. I'm quite sure you've been on the forums long enough to be aware of this. :P

I, personally, don't hate the FUNImation dub when it comes to voice actors. Sure, there's some voices that are just wrong but most of them I find them tolerable. The thing I don't like about the FUNImation work is how much they changed the source material, making Goku a completely different character.

I grew up with the Latin American dub and eventually met the English dubs through the games and a about 10 or so episodes I watched but couldn't stand due to being used to the Latin American voices. Finally, with Battle of the Gods, I met the Japanese voices and I gotta say that FUNImation did the worst job out of the three. Unlike Nia, I can't say it sucks and it's terrible or that the whole team should be shot to death but I gotta admit it's not as good due to the huge change they made to the main character and some voices that makes me wonder "What were they thinking?"
To the credit of Battle of Gods, both Beerus and Whis were fairly well casted in the FUNI dub.

And as for the Latin American dub, I still state that A: Despite using the French scripts as a basis (keep in mind, FUNI HAD the original Japanese scripts, and chose instead to "Americanize" it for no reason), it seems to remain pretty true to the source material, and B: even with some questionable voice choices and acting here and there, they at least sounded like they were trying (for instance, I think Goku could have sounded a bit more youthful... but he sounds so enthusiastic, and really put his heart in the role that I can appreciate it, and understand why fans are so fond of the Latin American dub).
Even if I don't watch the Latin American dub, I certainly have nothing against it beyond my own personal observations in terms of quality... and mind you, much of that could likely be attributed to the shoestring budget. As far as I can see, ultimately, they did what they could with what they had, and did a pretty good job on it (beyond my personal tastes).


"I am the bone of my sword
 Steel is my body and fire is my blood
 I have created over a thousand blades
 Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
 Have withstood pain to create many weapons
 Yet, those hands will never hold anything
 So as I pray, Unlimited Blade Works."

DBZ Fan Animation
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2016, 08:23:46 AM »

    Offline Kiyza

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I didn't even read Nia's or Kiyza's replies but I know Nia defends with his life the Japanese version of the anime and hates FUNImation's work. I'm quite sure you've been on the forums long enough to be aware of this. :P

Nia only hates the FUNimation dubs of Dragon Ball series, not FUNimation's dubs in general, though. There's a difference between blindly hating a company and being critical of a poor product.

But let's be honest, FUNImation's dub of DBZ IS a 4Kids' dub (they're even both owned by the same company, frequently share the same voice actors, and FUNI Kai's non-Toonami TV airings are even thrown in with other 4Kids' dubs). It has all the same cliches: renaming characters and abilities to Americanized versions, removing references to death and the afterlife (to the point where they STILL call the afterlife "Otherworld" as though it's a location rather than a plane of existence), injecting lame jokes, etc.

The original dub of the series, yes, but the dubs for Kai and the two recent movies were mostly fine with respect to unnecessarily "Americanizing" the series. On top of that, I find this rather hypocritical because there's at least an uncut version of the FUNimation dub with most of the censorship removed, but you praise the Ocean dub for its quality voice acting when it's even worse with respect to these issues.

And to further point out something... FUNImation has redubbed Dragon Ball Z how many times? There's the TV/Single DVD dub. There's the Orange Brick dub. There's the Dragon Box dub. There's the Kai dub. Yet, they STILL haven't gotten it right.

The only thing significantly "wrong" with the uncut Kai dub is the questionable casting choices carried over from earlier dubs. The translation is typical of a modern anime dub and, if I'm not mistaken, they even keep some Japanese terminology and attack names. The voice acting in general is also quite polished now that the actors have had well over a decade to work on their performances. I don't like it as much as the Japanese version, but if you think there's something significantly wrong with the Kai dub (and the dubs for the past two movies), it's probably because you're too sunk into the Japanese voices to appreciate another voice cast, or merely have a hate-boner for the FUNimation voices.

However, it gets old when every single FUNImation fan can't do the same you're asking of me and have to attack the Japanese version under the excuse that "Everyone (read: Goku) has a high-pitched voice!" or "I don't know Japanese, so why would I watch it?" and the like.

And I'm not even saying a person can't like the dub (I swear, everyone assumes that I'm saying a person can't watch the dub... hell, I still enjoy the Ocean dub, and it has the same god awful script writing). I'm just sick of them acting like it's the Holy Grail, and attacking the Japanese version without cause, and being unable to even back up their claims.
And let's be fair... I at least give credit where it's due to the dub, which is more than I can say about the FUNI fans who trash the Japanese version.

I'm not being an elitist who says sub>dub in every instance. But in the case of Dragon Ball? I will defend the Japanese version to the death over the joke of a "dub" FUNImation continues to crap out, especially when someone decides to proclaim "the Japanese version is utter shit."
Hell, when it comes to those first three movies, again... I can barely watch them in Japanese because the Ocean dubs were so damn well done (they did have flaws, mind you).

I wouldn't call the FUNImation dub of Dragon Ball garbage if it wasn't garbage. At least with the Ocean dub (excluding the superb dub of the first three movies, as per the usual...), you could appreciate the audio and acting quality, and (mostly) well chosen voices.

There are plenty of FUNimation fans who coexist relatively peacefully with people who prefer the series in Japanese. It's partially a matter of those mostly being "core" fans rather than people who just watched it on Toonami or have otherwise never made significant interactions with the fanbase. Someone being a naughtyword about a thing that you like isn't an excuse to bash the thing they like. All that does is create unnecessary conflict. Not to mention, it makes your side of the argument look like a bunch of assholes, which isn't what you want you're trying to make a point about how aggressive and obnoxious people who accept no substitutes for the FUNimation dub are. The simple fact of the matter is that while I've seen more extreme defensive reactions from FUNimation fans, fans of the Japanese version are often guilty of the same sins and sometimes combine it with a sort of hoity-toity elitism that can make them seem just as obnoxious as their counterparts when you're not taking sides, regardless of whether or not you're usually a dub person rather than a sub person.

And as for the Latin American dub, I still state that A: Despite using the French scripts as a basis (keep in mind, FUNI HAD the original Japanese scripts, and chose instead to "Americanize" it for no reason)

If I'm remembering correctly, they were (also?) given poorly translated English scripts by Toei that make Speed Racer look passable from the excerpts I've heard of them. I'm actually not sure whether or not they had a proper translator on board initially, because I know Daimao's subtitles didn't start being a thing until they started doing home releases. If you're not familiar with this, it might be a good idea to ask around on Kanzenshuu.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 08:59:34 AM by Kiyza »


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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2016, 08:51:38 AM »

    Offline Tofu

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Nia only hates the FUNimation dubs of Dragon Ball series, not FUNimation's dubs in general, though. There's a difference between blindly hating a company and being critical of a poor product.

By "FUNImation's work" I mean their work on DBZ, since that's basically what we're talking about.

If I'm remembering correctly, they were (also?) given poorly translated English scripts by Toei that make Speed Racer look passable from the excerpts I've heard of them. I'm actually not sure whether or not they had a proper translator on board initially, because I know Daimao's subtitles didn't start being a thing until they started doing home releases. If you're not familiar with this, it might be a good idea to ask around on Kanzenshuu.

That last reply was to Nia's quote but in your post says it was a quote from me. Not sure how that happened. :P
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« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2016, 09:00:02 AM »

    Offline Kiyza

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That last reply was to Nia's quote but in your post says it was a quote from me. Not sure how that happened. :P

My pasta skills were bad because the wall of text and I got mixed up. It's fixed now.


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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2016, 09:08:41 AM »

    Offline Umbrax

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Not a bad trailer in terms of animation, actually rather impressive.  But in terms of an actual trailer, I think it's really not that interesting.

I'm also a little bit annoyed by the idea of Vegetto, as it has been made very clear in the movies that they never want to fuse again, which is an idea I find interesting.  To throw that out the window seems really dumb to me.  Of course, this is just a fan trailer, I just can't help but be concerned that Super will actually try to bring him back -. -'.

Other than my minor gripes though, it's pretty well animated for a fan trailer.

Vegetto in Super would be the new Deus Ex Machina, and Toriyama clearly dosent want the holy shit power of SSGSS Vegetto.




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« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2016, 10:22:04 AM »

    Offline Nia

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Nia only hates the FUNimation dubs of Dragon Ball series, not FUNimation's dubs in general, though. There's a difference between blindly hating a company and being critical of a poor product.

The original dub of the series, yes, but the dubs for Kai and the two recent movies were mostly fine with respect to unnecessarily "Americanizing" the series. On top of that, I find this rather hypocritical because there's at least an uncut version of the FUNimation dub with most of the censorship removed, but you praise the Ocean dub for its quality voice acting when it's even worse with respect to these issues.

The only thing significantly "wrong" with the uncut Kai dub is the questionable casting choices carried over from earlier dubs. The translation is typical of a modern anime dub and, if I'm not mistaken, they even keep some Japanese terminology and attack names. The voice acting in general is also quite polished now that the actors have had well over a decade to work on their performances. I don't like it as much as the Japanese version, but if you think there's something significantly wrong with the Kai dub (and the dubs for the past two movies), it's probably because you're too sunk into the Japanese voices to appreciate another voice cast, or merely have a hate-boner for the FUNimation voices.

There are plenty of FUNimation fans who coexist relatively peacefully with people who prefer the series in Japanese. It's partially a matter of those mostly being "core" fans rather than people who just watched it on Toonami or have otherwise never made significant interactions with the fanbase. Someone being a naughtyword about a thing that you like isn't an excuse to bash the thing they like. All that does is create unnecessary conflict. Not to mention, it makes your side of the argument look like a bunch of assholes, which isn't what you want you're trying to make a point about how aggressive and obnoxious people who accept no substitutes for the FUNimation dub are. The simple fact of the matter is that while I've seen more extreme defensive reactions from FUNimation fans, fans of the Japanese version are often guilty of the same sins and sometimes combine it with a sort of hoity-toity elitism that can make them seem just as obnoxious as their counterparts when you're not taking sides, regardless of whether or not you're usually a dub person rather than a sub person.

If I'm remembering correctly, they were (also?) given poorly translated English scripts by Toei that make Speed Racer look passable from the excerpts I've heard of them. I'm actually not sure whether or not they had a proper translator on board initially, because I know Daimao's subtitles didn't start being a thing until they started doing home releases. If you're not familiar with this, it might be a good idea to ask around on Kanzenshuu.

The Kai dub is "passable" most of the time. While they brought in a good chunk of the Japanese terminology, which I absolutely do appreciate, there's still a lot that remains that irks me. And they take an awful lot of liberties with the script (compare the scene of Goku going Super-Saiyajin there to the Japanese version... the original Season 3 dub was actually more accurate for Goku's dialogue during that event).
However, most of the performances are not very good. They sound very flat, and the bland writing where everyone not named Freeza is written in the same plain manner doesn't help. Hell, some voice actors who actually were quite good in the original Z dub, like Eric Vale as Trunks, don't even sound like they care in Kai. The only I tolerate Kai's dub more is the new voices are excellent, and the script, even with all the liberties taken with it, usually do come at least reasonably close most of the time, even if they're plainly written.

And I'm most certainly not being hypocritical, as I did point out the Ocean dub was butchered in the same way (which is still on FUNI's hands, for the record, but it still effects the quality of the product regardless of who is responsible), outside of the first three movies. I praise it only on the quality of the directing, the voice casting (for the most part), and the like. I most certainly do not praise it for it's errors and script changes.

I don't appreciate the fact that Reacoom still sounds like a mentally retarded Arnold Schwarzenegger. I don't appreciate that Christopher Sabat actual uses less distinction between his far too numerous roles than he did in the Z dub. I don't appreciate that Sean Schemmel still can't make Goku sound innocent, instead making him sound like he goes full retard in every scene when the character is laid back (and I definitely don't appreciate Sean Schemmel claiming anyone who doesn't like the FUNI Kai dub isn't a Dragon Ball fan because he lied and said it's as "pure" as can be just because he's a shithead who still hasn't learned his god damn character after more than a decade). I don't appreciate stupid lines like "Go for Krillin." I don't appreciate that only in the uncut version of Kai do they ever use the Japanese terminology for the attacks, but in the TV version, and the games, and the new movies, they still hold onto retarded names like "Special Beam Cannon."
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Of the primary characters who appear from the start of the Saiyajin arc, the only one who has a fitting voice is Tenshinhan. Since those are the core characters for pretty much the whole series, you'd think those would be the ones they'd be concerned most about.
Kai did mercifully at least fix Bulma. Her new voice (along with the better part of new talent hired/brought in for Kai) is a good choice.
Starting with the Cell arc, most of the new voices were well chosen in Z. However, it doesn't help that the directing was and still is awkward. And if you've seen Kai since around the time Goku and Freeza started fighting, you'll probably notice they started slacking off and writing more "Americanized" dialogue, just as the last movie had. While there hasn't been anything quite as bad as "mondo cool" or "pop goes the weasel," when you have Goku spouting out how Freeza is a naughtyword and is going to make him suffer during the scene where he's barely even able to choke out a sentence (which by the way was along the lines of "Y-y-you won't... get away... with this.... how dare you... h-how dare you!?")... it's pretty obvious.
There's nothing in the writing or directing that differientiates the characters except for Freeza. Seriously, go watch it. They sound so flat. Freeza is the only one who's written any differently (finally making him speak in flowery language until he gets cornered and starts screaming like a spoiled brat... which is exactly how Freeza is supposed to be written). Why can't they put the same effort into the script and acting of the other characters? Especially for all the damn times they've dubbed and redubbed it.

I'll say Kai isn't offensively bad (most of the time), but it's definitely not anything I would ever classify as a "good" dub. It's dull and lifeless until Chris Ayres (who should seriously get a freakin' award for his performance... I'm not even kidding, he is literally the best part of any FUNI in-house dub ever) pops up.

You have to remember... I actually am old enough to remember when they switched to the FUNI dub from the Ocean cast. I remember how much the quality dropped, and even if the scripts are more accurate these days, the quality still hasn't ever gotten to voice acting and audio quality of the Ocean dub.
And I mean the actual audio mixing. Like everything else about FUNI's work with Dragon Ball, they never really make it sound like the music is separate from the sound effects and voices, and that's pretty bad.

Yes, Kai is watcheable. It doesn't usually make me cringe (other than Schemmel's retarded giggling). But it rarely makes me actually look up from my screen, or make me care that it's on in the background.
It's not great, it's not even good, and most of the time, it's frankly not even average. Most of the time, it's tolerable.

Again, I'll give credit where it's due (which I've still pretty much never seen from the FUNI fanboys, just for the record), but if you expect me to claim the mediocrity of Kai is more than it is, sorry... it ain't going to ever happen.
I know many of these actors can give good performances. I've heard them do good performances. I don't know why they don't give their best performances here. But when Piccolo, Kami, Yamcha, and Vegeta all sounds the same, moreso than they did back when they had some of the worst scripts ever written? That's not polished.
When these actors barely give any emotion in their performance? That's not polished.
When they simply say a character's personality traits, rather than actually sounding like said traits? That's not polished.

Considering it took them an entire decade to figure out how to say "Kaioken" correctly, maybe in another 2 years (a decade after Burst Limit, where they finally realized "Oh, yeah! It's Kaioken, not Kayoken... why would King Kai's skill named after him be pronounced entirely different?") we'll finally have them drop the Americanization entirely, and finally give Dragon Ball the dub it truly deserves.

Considering the dubs of the first three movies when they were done by Ocean back in 1998 (two years after most of those actors took on their roles), and considering how they were extremely solid (despite some annoyances, such as still saying "Saiyan" wrong, the lack of "Son," no accent for Goku, and the poorly named "Spirit Bomb" instead of something remotely relating to Genki-dama, etc.), they were nearly perfect in their scripting, had absolutely stellar acting, and the voices actually were fitting.
Is it really too much to ask we cut out what little Americanization there was in those, and go forth with that level of quality? From the voices, to the audio quality itself, to the directing, to the extras on the DVD that even used the Japanese names for the attacks (in an era when nobody familiar with the dub would even know what the Makankosappo was), THAT was and STILL IS the best example of how to do a Dragon Ball dub.

There's no reason why they can't give the same level of care to the Dragon Ball dub that's given to something like Code Geass, Death Note, Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works, or even FUNImation's own Fullmetal Alchemist, and that's precisely why I gripe.
Hell, the better chunk of the cast of the FUNI dub of DBZ gives absolutely stellar performances to the dub of Fullmetal Alchemist, and they change very little when dubbing it from it's Japanese version. Why can't the company give that level of care to their flagship franchise? Is that something that we can't have? Is there any reason we should expect less from Dragon Ball?
THAT is what pisses me off the most... that almost 20 years have passed, and the best FUNI has ever done with Dragon Ball is basically "acceptable." And that is unacceptable.

...Good grief, this thread got derailed, and I think I may have had a part in that....


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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2016, 01:19:26 PM »

    Offline Shinozaki

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So I found this cool animation on YouTube, and wanted to share it with you guys. In my opinion I think this is better than the original. Enjoy ^_^


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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2016, 07:42:20 PM »

    Offline Komatsuna

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It's a good animation, but it's still a little wonky here and there (e.g. before Frieza showed up)

Perfect... another one of those guys.

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« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2016, 07:24:23 AM »
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Look pretty decent, I love the super saiyan animation and styling a lot.

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« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2016, 07:37:28 AM »

    Offline Kiyza

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This was already posted in this thread.


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« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2016, 06:25:46 PM »

    Offline LucioDbz

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So i have been reading some of this dub opinions... i didn't read all, because, geez you guys write ALOT xD.
But as a latinamerican who really loves this story (Dbz) i grew up watching the latin version, when i buyed some games i enjoyed alot the english dub, to the point i watched the whole funianimation version. (Its practically the reason i know english)
And you guys are kinda right, the personalities of the characters are bad represented...( i also watched japanese ) but i think you're being too hard, cause it wasn't really that bad, or  ''garbage''. At least from my opinion.
I think funianimation took what the original series was, the japanese one, and make it look from a different perspective, more... explosive maybe? Cause i sorry, i CANT say japanese orchestal music ( who is a peace of art when it comes to music ) fits better than Bruce falcouner, just no, cause okay, falcouner isn't the shit but it maked the fight scenes sound alot better and the calm ones, that ones like when a character feels another one power (spirit, ki, energy) to find him, a crazy thing to do ( if we could ) in reality, feel the life of another, just the perfect sound, dont know why.
When a scene of action was coming out, he captured perfectly the tension of it.
Its difficult to explain.
Glad DbSuper is doing it good with the osts.

Here i put some moments who i think they did it fine capturing the emotion of the scene.



probably the best power up in the series/saga.


When Goku appears...out of nothing.




This is the shit.






This shows how Goku is so pure even a god would give his life for him. Beutiful scene.



I have more but that would be too much xD







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« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2016, 08:08:09 PM »

    Offline Tensa

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One of the best fan animations i've seen so far.. Especially the Vegetto fight scene.
<src="">
This has got to be one of the best fan animations I've ever seen, this should've been made the official DBS lol.
So I found this cool animation on YouTube, and wanted to share it with you guys. In my opinion I think this is better than the original. Enjoy ^_^


Also a great one, liked it a lot, glad they used the FUNI dub, can't really stand the japanese, but some people have their likes so I wont really question it.
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« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2016, 09:54:11 PM »

    Offline Mikecw.

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We need more animators to offset DB Super.