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The closest thing this game can get to maximizing skill would require:-All Pokemon must have Battle/Shell Armor only to prevent critical hits.-Only 100% accuracy moves.-Moves that do not have a chance based effect.-No status conditions other than Burn/Confuse (though these would only be usable by passing orb items under these conditions).-No Abilities with a chance based effect.-No Hold Items that have to do with chance.-No Multi-Hitting moves (since no skill link due to needing Battle Armor or Shell Armor)-Both players start with the same lead Pokemon.-Anything else I missed involving RNG (except speed ties, which I'll get to soon).Not only do these set of unofficial rules go further than smogon ever will in terms of balancing the game (though smogon's rules are nowhere near as boring), but even after all of that there is still the issue of the speed tie coin flip. Even if you were to alter the programming of the speed tie so that both attacks happen simultaneously, Pokemon would still be nothing but a guessing game... of course, being knowledgeable and predicting correctly as consistently as possible takes some level of skill, but it still has a lot of luck involved.In short, while Pokemon does require some level of skill, the skill cap is VERY low for competitive players when compared to other games (specifically ones that are not turn based). If you look at Super Smash Bros for example (which is not even seen as one of the more competitive games), while the roster is nowhere near balanced, if you turn off all items and play a mirror match on a non-hazardous stage, with a character that has no RNG (such as Peach with her random radishes and sometimes items), THAT is an example that reaches a true battle of skill (at least in melee and project M, where slipping which can be compared to critical hits, cannot happen)... the problem with considering Pokemon to have a significant amount of skill involved is that even with self-imposed rules it cannot reach that level where skill is the only factor without a simulator that changes the mechanics of some things entirely (such as speed ties), in which case you aren't even playing "Pokemon" anymore.tl;dr: Wah wah wah I suck at pokemon so I'm going to ruin your fun.PS: I stole the text from WolfJounin on a gamefags forum.Spoiler for Hidden:
The problem with Pokemon isn't with the game itself, the problem is you being terrible at it. I've fought you and you're atrocious. A perfect test of skill with no randomness is hardly a test of skill at all. Even real-world sports have a measure of randomness involved in them and virtually every competitive game is asymmetrical to begin with. Pokemon requires a lot more skill than you give it credit for, it's just that it requires skill in a different manner than things like MOBAs and fighting games.I'm too lazy to explain why randomness in competitive games is important, so I'm just going to link to Extra Credits' episode on why it's important to them.Stop whining about the fact that you're shit at Pokemon and blaming it on the game. If you want to play Pokemon, git gud.
While these facts do make sense, this still sounds like nothing more than a hate thread targeted towards Pokemon.
I love Pokemon
So you're basically making this thread to continue an argument with Kiyza over how much skill it takes to be good at Pokemon. gg
I said this wasn't a debate thread.
He said an argument, not a debate.
They aren't the same? Debates usually have a connotation of formality I guess, but they're pretty similar.
An argument involves more of you whining.
The problem with Pokemon isn't with the game itself, the problem is you being terrible at it. I've fought you and you're atrocious.
I think the new Pokemon Generation is flawed crap. Not necessarily for the reasons Mike has posted. This opinion was formed out of my own sheer experience with Generation 6. I've been playing Pokemon ever since Generation 1 and only started to get competitively involved since Gen 4. I don't mean to boast, but I believe myself to have become a VERY good pokemon competitive trainer by the time Gen 5 (Black and White) came out. Playing Black and White/Black and White 2 was extremely fun competitively because there were just so many pokemon teams and choices to choose from. So many different strategies I could implement. I made team after team and destroyed other people online with my various teams. Gen 5 actually was what made me get into double battles. Heck, I even occasionally made teams for Rotation and triple battles.Then Gen 6 came along. In my honest opinion, Gen 6 really ruined the competitive play for me. Why? Well there are many reasons why but the main two are these: Repetitive use of the same pokemon/strategies being used over. And over. And over. If I had a nickel for every Charizard Y I've battled...I'd be a billionaire. This repetition made battles really boring because I'd know what to expect every time. I don't know about you guys but when I battled in Gen 5, I saw so many different teams. Sure there were repetitions but no way in hell does it come close to the number of repetitions in Gen 6.The other reason is, well simply put, Fairy types. I hesitate to use the words OP to describe this type...but I'd like to carefully say that this type is hard to find a flaw (I mean, why don't we take a look at Fairy types? Immune to dragon. Weak to only 2 other types - both of which are uncommon types used for competitive teams. Minus Overused Scizor of course. Resistant to 3 other types). With this new type and how everyone had at least one fairy on their team at all times, this forced me to always keep a pokemon which is either poison type or steel type on my team - even when I didn't want those types in my teams. Don't get me wrong. It's not like I'm a terrible player in Gen 6. In fact, I'm pretty good seeing as my skills/strategies from Gen 5 transferred over to Gen 6. I can still predict like I used to and mess around with my opponents.Oh and before I forget, I really really really dislike the Gen 6 tiers. Of course, my argument isn't flawless but I'd like to point out that they've banned pokemon based on certain reasons when those very reasons could be applied to another pokemon. For example, They banned Mega-Lucario. Yeah yeah I've heard it all he's OP. I agree with you guys. But think about it for a sec. Why is he OP? Well he has high speed and damage. Also, it's hard to tell whether the opponent has built it as a Special Sweeper or a Attack Sweeper. Can you guys think of another pokemon that can be banned because of these reasons? I can. Charizard! Who knows if it's a Special Attack or Attack sweeper? It's hard to tell because you don't know what mega stone its holding. Once it evolves, boom! Flamethrower to the face with drought on + stab. OHKO. Or maybe a tough claws flare blitz. Whatever it'll dent even some bulky water types I use. You guys get the idea.
Do not fault the successful participant in a flawed system; try instead to discern and rebuke that aspect of its organization which allows or encourages the behavior that has provoked your displeasure.
Also, if you don't like Pokemon being banned, just do yourself a favor and stop using online simulators. They're not banned from the actual game.
So you're saying that because you suck, you should criticize the game itself instead of attempting to be a "successful participant" like me?Good God you're pathetic.Go play a game you like instead of whining about how you think Pokemon is unfair.
Honest to God Kiyza, I was half expecting you to rip my argument to shreds not agree with me LOL.Oh and I never knew they weren't banned in the actual games. Yeah I don't own a 3DS so I'm used to playing online simulators. Interesting.
I've been pretty calm in this thread to you but you're naughtyword pushing it now.For starters, that's obviously copypasta. And it's copypasta you didn't naughtyword read because it says "flawed system" in it too. Should I not naughtyword criticize a flawed system? Just because you have your nostalgia goggles on and your head up your ass doesn't mean I can't "whine" about whatever the naughtyword I want, especially shit based on objective facts unlike the shit you can "get behind" which is mostly opinion.And don't naughtyword flatter yourself by saying you're a "successful participant" at anything. The quote is just an expansion on the phrase "Don't hate the player, hate the game." If I was pathetic though, I'd actually believe you to be successful.You're a nuisance to this thread and instead of actually discussing the determinants of "skill" or what we define "skill" as, you call me pathetic and say I "whine." If anyone is throwing a bitchfit it's you.Here's that naughtyword pyramid you pull out of your ass anytime you meet criticism. I wonder where I'd find you on it?
You have a good point, though. It's one of the things that bothers me a lot about Pokemon too. 700+ of the little guys and only a handful of them are considered viable in competitive play. I'm personally using a team that has only one commonly-used Pokemon in it.If you're stuck with simulators, I'd recommend trying to play VGC format, since they can't ban any Pokemon there, as it's supposed to be the same format as the actual games.This thread isn't a debate, though, so the pyramid is pointless. It is, after all, the argument pyramid. You said yourself that this isn't a debate or an argument, or do you want to take that back now and turn it into one? If you do, I don't have the time deal with it. I should know better than to spend an hour in the chat arguing with you when I have other things to do and you shouldn't be so obsessed over winning your silly little arguments.If you win an argument on the internet, so what? So what, Mike? What does that say about you? You have a childish obsession with winning and need to get over yourself. You know that, don't you?If I'm throwing a bitchfit, it's because I'm tired of your attitude toward shit like this. The discussion ended last night in the chat box and there was no need to make a damn thread about it. My patients can only go so far and you should have realized by now that you're excellent at wearing them thin.
Well of course pokemon is flawed Its made for childrensNext thing you will make a thread entitled "Skylanders is flawed, and I'm going to cry about it"